litters..colony..a week between them..uhm..

[Zab]

I didn't know what to name this thread. And I have a distinct feeling I've made a similiar thread before.. anyhow, I'm full of ideas I need to bounce of the walls.. (yeah, I hjust called you a wall. :shock: But a good wall, I promise! Hopefully the talking type of wall, with ears!)

I'm beating this idea with litters in the colony around in my head. So.. I have 4 does. I know a lot of people recommend having two does bred at the same time in case something goes wrong and the kits need a foster mommy. And there's other nice things with that..like.. kits of the same age.

But I was thinking of breeding the does one week apart, all 4 of them. My reason is that I have this foldable wall in the colony and I would simply feel better if I knew the doe and newborns wouldn't be disturbed by the other rabbits. And I wouldn't have quite the same area to try and locate a stray nest in.. But there's a few questions..

Would one week apart be enough? Perhaps two would be better? If some kits need help I could hold a doe with two weeks old kits to help nursing, right? Of course the first doe in the row would be pretty alone.. If I keep a 3 week schedual between the does I would almost alway have one nursing, I think.. 4 does, it would give them 12 weeks between their rendez-vous with Kori the buck.. right?

When could I feel relatively safe about moving the doe and nest out in the pen again? Once their eyes are opened? Since the cage is more or less in the pen I figure it's not a big problem to re-introduce the doe, but I'm a but concerned about the kits. The whle ''putting them back together again'' is the thing I'm most concerned about.. if they're born in the colony they sort of naturally pop up among the others... if they survive..
I could keep them in the mini-pen untill the next doe needs getting in there, I guess..

But then again.. having that pen in there at all times takes space from the actual pen.. although only 3 does would share that at any given time. But.. I don't really like that. I have also played with the idea to have the litter in the indoor cage and let the doe in to nurse twice a day. However.. that's a lot of extra work if I intend to get litters all the time and I'd still have the introducing issue. (and I hate cleaning the indoor cage)

A third option is to ust let them kindle in the pen with the other does there.. but I'm afraid the others will harm the kits. And it's really annoying to look around for nests everywhere, not knowing if they've managed to build it somewhere you never thought of looking. I know there is a risk of other does hurting the kits.. but could anyone guess for me how big or small that risk is?

How do you fix it, with colonies and kits?

And this is the pen with the mini-pen up - most of you have probably seen it, but for those who hasn't:

 

[Disney]

I'm kind of facing the same issue like you but in a different way so i can't really answer your question.
As for the doe's harming eachother's nests and kits.. i don't think they do for no reason, they are known for raising their youngs in warrens, a social group of multiple individuals

My doe's kindled in the colony last year with only 2 hutches inside, both are used and the others showed respect towards the nests and the kits.
My only worry for now is that i have 3 pregnant doe's at the moment, and i only have 2 nestplaces..
And from what i'm seeing the last couple of days, Disney the alpha dominant doe is claiming the nestbox in the main hutch as she chases off her pregnant daughter when she enters the hutch. I guess i'll have to add something to the pen for the 3rd doe to use as nestbox.

 

[MaggieJ]

We have not had many problems with our does. The buck is in the colony full time (he's pretty mellow) so we never know exactly when we will find kits in the nest tunnels. At present, we have two does and two tunnels. Most kits survive just fine. Some does are more territorial than others, but I'd be inclined to assume all will go well, as long as there are sufficient good nest sites. If it doesn't work out, then next time you will know you need to separate them.

 

[Zab]

Could you just add any box of some sort? I've heard of some member here using cheap plastic boxes? Lovely picture!

My main concern is the risk of them harming each others kits... I'm probably just nervous since I'm new at it :lol: I think that keeping them bred with 2-3 weeks apart could keep them from chosing the same nestbox..? I have enough but rather not have them sharing one. But if they can just get along fine without fighting when bred etc, I wouldn't have a problem to think of. I wouldn't need to think about re-introducing kits or doe, or to keep the mini-pen up..

I'm also trying to figure out what to do with Kori. He's currently in the mini-pen but I'd like to move him out so my 4 does will have more space.. which would make him alone since they didn't get any kits this time and I thus have no younglings to keep him company in the outdoor pens. I might follow an advice I got in another thread; keep him caged next to the does at day and in the pen at night, at least untill I have some offspring to keep him company. (I have two outdoor cages/pens next to each other)

MaggieJ: I suppose I should just try and see..

 

[MaggieJ]

Entirely your choice, Zab. I tend to assume all will go well until proven otherwise. Usually it works out fine, but then my rabbits are quite inbred, so it's "all in the family."

 

[Dood]

Once my rabbits were all sisters and daughters I had alot less problems with infanticide in the colony. I always had extra nest sites but there were a couple favorites that the rabbits would fight over, usually the more out of the way and secluded ones so I would get two litters in there. Sometimes the bigger kits would get double feed and the smaller ones starved even if the does shared well.

All you can do is try it, if you have problems you can always try fix it before too many kits are lost and separate them.

If you have a mean doe who drags out the kits or attacks them then I would not re-introduce the kits until they can run, probably around 4 weeks.

 

[Zab]

I'll try to keep my nerves settled and just see how it goes.. :3

I broke quarantine yesterday (a bit early, I know.. but..meh.) and introduced the new does to the colony. I put them in he indoor cage first and broke up any fussing by violently petting them so they sought cover together. I'm a mean mommy :lol: After some hour they had been ignoring or grooming each other for a while and I put them out in the real pen. There was some chasing and I think Kyndel gave Fläder and Madra a quick bite in the fur when they wern't fast enough, but it all settled down fairly quickly. I havn't followed a single rule here, I've never been good at sdlow introductions... I watched them for a while and when Kummin and Kyndel would stop chasing Madra as soon as she started to move away, I left them. Checked a few times before I went to bed but they're living together now. Fläder goes along with everyone but Madra is very tired and sleepy from eing nervous all night. Even when Kummin or Kyndel just carefully and friendly tries to contact her she takes off. Poor thing, only one she trusts is Fläder.. But this morning I noticed she and Kyndel rubbed noses for about 2 seconds before Madra took off.. so I think it's getting better.
Concidering how little fuss there has been despite the bad way of introducing them, I think they're pretty gentle all of them. Kummin and Kyndel are definetly alpha, but I don't think they'd bite a kit. Only injury is Fläders ear, and I think that's because she stepped on it, not because of a bite. Some of her white hairs are in the pen, but she's shedding so that doesn't have to mean anything. There's no other fur in there.

I re-bred Kyndel and Kummin yesterday too, I'll repeat in a week (in case the stress and changes caused them to abort). Or maybe I'll just breed Kyndel in a week and re-breed Kummin in two or three weeks..

If I have one mean doe.. perhaps I should cull her if the behaviour repeats.. I want nice rabbits. :/

I feel a bit sorry for Madra. She's sooo scared.. but she needs to learn. And they are leaving her alone now.. perhaps she'll get so tired she doesn't notice them coming close and wakes up in a bunny pile :lol: When I se her now she's first running (because I came in) and as soon as she settles she's practcally falling asleep, snapping her eyes open at every sound. Fläder comes to her and comfort her at times. I have a cardboard box in the pen, she likes to hide under it, probably because she can run out in any direction, would the scary demon rabbits sniff at her.
But no injuries.. no bundles of fur flying around.. I think they'll do good.

 

[3mina]

I've found that since every set up is different, there are few hard and fast RULES out there. So if the introduction you used worked and it sound like it did, then use it. I've found over the years that I get what I expect from pretty much every critter I deal with so I tend to expect the behavior I want.

 

[Zab]

Madra and Kummin were found grooming each other before.. I think it'll be fine But I'm hopeless at following protocol.. anyhow.. I need to sooth my nerves and expect them to behave..