lilac otter, lilac tort, lilac tort otter or ??

[Tiny Buns]

We have a colorful litter from our broken lilac netherland doe and sable point marten netherland buck.

We have 1 chocolate, 1 blue, 1 broken blue, 1 broken _______, and 2 _________

Initially we thought 2 lilac. Then though 2 lilac otter because of the pink tummy. But now there is a tan color at the base of the neck and the overall color isn't so much solid lilac as it is lilac tan. This is a new color for me so I wanted to ask opinions.

thanks

__________ Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:48 pm __________

I also have a mystery broken from this litter. I thought it was a broken lilac (charlie) but the color on the back is different than the color on the face. Face is more brown.

 

[Dood]

Holy crud :shock:

I was not expecting that !

Statistically you should have gotten 50% black based, so now I am questioning if the doe is a sable point marten :? But since you got a chocolate and blue she must be black based and they just defeated the odds with this litter :mrgreen:

I think I see lilac otters and lilac fox AKA tort otters but hopefully others with a better eye for lilac will post

 

[Tiny Buns]

Well here's where it got confusing for me.

This story starts last summer when I purchased what I was told was a smoke pearl and given that I have a smoke pearl in our herd, the rabbit was clearly not a smoke pearl.

lilac-lilac-tort-t26556.html#p285090

I asked several places and several more experienced breeders and I got many different answers but the two most common where sable point marten and fox. The consensus leaned heavily towards marten so that's what we went with.

Fast forward to now. This sable point marten/smoke pearl/fox mystery color buck is the sire of my broken lilac's litter and we have what looks very much like fox kits.

Maybe that helps pin the colors down?

 

[Dood]

Unfortunately it just makes things more confusing

He certainly has the tan gene (otter/marten) and looks sable point (marten & tort) but I don't think he is black :shock:

Can you post pictures of the chocolate and blue kits

 

[Tiny Buns]

dam

__________ Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:20 pm __________



All the kits (6)

__________ Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:23 pm __________

This is baby "fox" and senior "fox". Perhaps you can see why we were thinking sable point marten? <br /><br /> __________ Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:26 pm __________ <br /><br /> I'd just really like to know what color these babies are and if they are showable vs unshowable so I know if I should keep one or pet it out.

 

[Dood]

if you cannot identify the colours then it is a good bet they are not showable

One of the reasons why things like fox and sallander are not recognized is because it IS difficult to differentiate the different colours :mrgreen:

The blue kit is definetly dilute but there is a chance the chocolate kit is really a black sable :x give it some time and see if the colour turns more silver or frosty looking

 

[Tiny Buns]

Is black sable a seal?

Or what exactly does one look like?

 

[Dood]

Sorry :roll: another name for "black sable" is "Siamese sable"

They look like dark chocolates as newborns but start to lighten and get a shimmery silvery look to their fur as they mature (mine start to change at 2-4 weeks) and as adults they look like dark sable points (but because they are normal extension they have more black, sable points are non-extension and have more cream)

 

[Tiny Buns]

Oh for heavens sake. Now I feel dumb. I have a smoke pearl, sable point and Siamese sable but had no idea the latter was a black point.

Now I'll have to keep my eye on this kit.......