? Likely results Magpie to Tri Color

[WhWRabbitry]

First off these are not two colors I'm wanting to breed together. But I know someone who is wanting to and asked me some questions. I wondered if I am correct that breeding a low rufus factor Tri Color to a Magpie would likely end up with tri colors and magpies that both had less than desired color. True or not?

Thanks for feedback!

 

[skysthelimit]

In general, it's not the best idea to breed chin genes to full color rufus rabbits. The chin genes function is to strip away color, so the person is subtracting the very rufus that makes good tris, causing graying. And often rabbits with good rufus leave smut on the chin based colors as well.
Depends on what this persons goals are.

 

[Dood]

You'll only get magpies (and broken magpies) if the tri colour carries a recessive on its C-locus (chin, sable, himi or REW)

"True" harlequin (and hence tri colours) have the agouti and Japanese harlequin genes and magpies should have the chinchilla gene BUT there are lots of self based harlis and self and sable based magpies out there with "muddy" looking colour

 

[WhWRabbitry]

Thank you skysthelimit & Dood! Very helpful. <br /><br /> __________ Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:06 pm __________ <br /><br /> I wanted to follow up on this question I posted.
The following were the results.

I got permission to post the photos as the owner (who is a friend of ours) is very curious what the color of this one would be called. Is it a sable point?


Thanks for any additional feedback.

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

look pretty to me

 

[Dood]

sable based Frosty (verses chinchilla based) you can see the agouti markings in the ears - sable points are self based and should be darker inside the ears like a tort

 

[WhWRabbitry]

sable based Frosty (verses chinchilla based) you can see the agouti markings in the ears - sable points are self based and should be darker inside the ears like a tort

Thank you Dood, as always! Am I correct that "frosty" is also called "Frosted Pearl"?
SO, she is interested in eventually breeding this kit back to the father which is the Tri color with low rufus. What might that bring about?

 

[Dood]

Statisticly there should have been some tri-colour or harlequin so I am questioning whether the sire is indeed a tri colour or if he is miss labeled

Breeding back to the sire will will likely produce sables, sable magpies and broken sables and sable magpies as seen in this litter


PS none of the kits look like they are chinchilla based so the magpie dam is likely a sable based magpie

 

[WhWRabbitry]

Hmm... well he looked like a lightly marked broken black when he was young and then as he got to be full grown some small patches of orange showed up. When he was bred to our Japanese Harlequin (when we owned him) they produced Black Japanese, Magpies (both blue & black) , & Tri Colors. I think a couple in this litter that look like broken black will likely be like him and show the light orange markings later on... ?

Oh, in case I didn't state before the dame of this litter is the daughter of the Sire of this litter.

Thanks much for your feedback!

 

[Dood]

Thomas - post248861.html?hilit=Tri#p248861 -is not a tricolour but a broken magpie

 

[WhWRabbitry]

Thomas - post248861.html?hilit=Tri#p248861 -is not a tricolour but a broken magpie

Even though he looked like this when grown?


I guess I'm confused too because if he was a magpie he and a Japanese Harlequin would not have had Tri colors would they?

 

[Dood]

I guess I'm confused too because if he was a magpie he and a Japanese Harlequin would not have had Tri colors would they?

I'm not sure why you'd think this, the harlequin colour is dominant over magpie so you should have gotten around 75% harli or tri kits from crossing a harli to a tri who carried recessives on the C-locus and you should get 50% harli or tri from breeding a harli to a magpie.

He is not like any harlequin I've ever seen nor have I seen such dark brown in a magpie :shrug: and I've had over a 100 born here but if you breed him to the frosty and get harlequins or tris then that is what he must be

 

[ladysown]

Can I see more pictures of that buck? He looks similar to something I had come through here once. Oddest rabbit for what he produced.

based on the other thread....that rabbit IS a tricolour. You can see it in his face and ears. Not a particularly good one for colouring, but it's there.

I had a "what looked like" a magpie when he was older but he was a tricolour, the colour just washed out as he matured. He consistently threw kits that were EXCELLENT tricolours.

Camden as a baby


Camden as an adult = lost all of his orange markings


Kits from Camden


odd buck... he'd throw colour totally dependent on the doe. Black from black, tort from tort, tri and jap from tri and jap. some of his kits were SO dark. He left to be bred to magpies and that's what he's throwing....

 

[WhWRabbitry]

Ladysown,
I appreciate your feedback too. I'd been convinced from when I posted about him some months ago that he was a tri color with low rufus factor, which only made more sense to me as he matured and gained more noticeably orange.

11 weeks


around 6 months (faintly you can see some smudges of a pale orange on his face)


Close to one year old when we sold him to a friend:


<br /><br /> __________ Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:18 am __________ <br /><br /> With our Japanese Harlequin doe he had litters like this:

From one of the litters we kept this guy (who has also now grown and sired a litter):


and then the photos previously posted above in the thread show what came of being bred to his black magpie daughter.

 

[Dood]

In my tri's they often look like broken fawn and then the black starts showing up rather than being black and white as kits then the orange showing up.

His baby pictures and colour statistics indicate he is a magpie but these litters just might be a fluke :shrug: 2 or 3 litters is not enough to rule out him being a tri-colour

 

[12345]

Anyone know what I could get from these pairings? I know just about nothing of genetics. But I get the general idea.these are all holland lops.

Chocolate magpie-chocolate harlequin
Chocolate magpie-black tort
Chocolate magpie-black tri

Sable point frosty-chocolate magpie

Orange to-
* black otter
* chocolate magpie
* sable point frosty

Sable point to-
* black otter
* chocolate magpie
* sable point frosty