Kit but no nest?

[Millie J]

Hi Guys

I'm new to breeding but I want to start hobby breeding. I have 3 girls and 2 boys all Netherland dwarfs and all 5 live together happily with a neutered female mixed breed. As these guys are all pets I really want to do this with them living together (obviously if they ever started fighting I'd split them up). Today while cleaning the cage I found a single kit, it was quite large (although this is the first kit I've ever seen) and after a while trying to warm it up and 'massaging' it, I finally confirmed that it was dead. I was under the impression that the mother would make a nest? But I found it on the other side of the cage to the hay. I put the kit back in the cage to see if the rabbits could revive it or something (...honestly I'm not sure what I was expecting here) all the bunnies had a sniff but then just wandered off, none of them seemed to care that there was a kit or that it was dead.

If I had known one was pregnant already I would have been more careful and checked more regularly although that's hindsight I guess. As they are pets they come out of the cage for long periods in the day, sometimes on their own and sometimes in groups and have not noticed any major behaviour changes in any of them (they all have different personalities). I also weighed them but all three are a similar weight to what they were at the beginning of the month and last month. I have been feeling their bellies since the beginning of March because I wasn't sure when or who would breed first but have not noticed any 'grapes' and surely I would have felt something that large? It's like the length of a back leg!!! They are mostly toilet trained but I do give the cage a quick hoover once a day and didn't notice it until today, could have been in a hide or corner?

The kit weighed 34g but looked big, the eyes hadn't opened yet and judging by the sparse bearly visible fuzz I'm guessing it was less than 4 days old. Is that a normal size/weight for a kit that young? Could it have been bigger because there was only one? It also looked skinny, I could see the ribs. Is there a way to know if it was stillborn or if it died after? I am thrilled to have finally had a full-term pregnancy (I've been waiting for a year, they were two young last year, then it was winter) but I am concerned that the mother made no nest and seemed to abandon the kit. Also, is it normal for the other females to not care for another monthers kit either? I don't expect another female to nurse it but I would have expected one out of six to at least have taken it to a safe place. I know rabbits are quite hands-off parents but no nest at all?

All feedback and criticism welcome, I'm new to this and need to learn from my mistakes. I just need to know what they are.
Happy to answer any questions.

Millie

 

[ladysown]

when colony keeping you need to ensure there are adequate nest boxes and lots of bedding available for the rabbits to make a nest should they choose to do so.

Can't tell you anything about the kit as I can't see it.
Thin tells you wasn't fed.
if it was outside of the cage it may have crawled through the wire.

 

[Preitler]

Hi,

if there were bucks around when the doe kindled that can explain some things - nothing gets a buck as aggressivly horny like a doe giving birth, they don't even wait for her to finish before trying to impregnate her right again. I guess that can cause huge stress and drone out that little voice in her head, her instincts, trying to tell her what to do next.

A colony setup can work, but imho that's expert level rabbit breeding. I wouldn't know how to keep the buck from interfering, and they sure need a lot of space, and the right setup.
I would say just keeping a bunch of rabbits somehow together and hope that they randomly multiply isn't exactly the same.

Some first timers have difficulties to figure out the right sequence anyway, so it's always a good idea to be around and help out, by providing a nest if she didn't build one, and by putting kits born outside in there. That does happen now and then.

About caring for kits, I would put it that way:
Rabbits don't care about isolated kits. They do not carry them anywhere, if it's out of the nest, it's dead. It's the nest they protect and care about. In nature, the doe digs a tunnel, about an arms lenght, builds the nest in there and seals that tunnel with hay and stuff except for a few minutes twice a day when she comes nursing. No kit leaves that nest early. No need to evolve an instinct to care for single stray kits. That's great for fostering kits to other does, they don't know how many kits or which ones they have, when it's in her nest, it's her kit. Otherwise, it's dead to her.
That's the reason why we provide a nestbox, it simulates that tunnel, and makes it difficult that a kit wanders off or get dragged out of the nest on the teat. Also, it gives the doe a place to build the nest that feels right, something her instincts recognise, and she can prepare in time. And then to stay in one place when giving birth, and not scatter the kits all over the place.

There's a distinctive learning curve everyone goes through when breeding rabbits.

 

[Millie J]

Sorry, I mean it was out in the middle of the cage floor, they don't have wire its more like plastic panelling with an open wire top and fleece on the bottom (indoor). There were 3 hides in there (one wood, one plastic tunnel and a fleecy cave) as well as a large tray of hay. I have a picture of the kit if you want me to post it? <br /><br /> -- Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:16 pm -- <br /><br /> If i isolated the female when she was due (assuming I can tell she is pregnant) would being isolated distress her?

I've heard of below floor nest boxes but I am unsure of how to provide that in an indoor cage. If I made a box with a lift-up lid and a tunnel entrance would that do the trick? I thought other breeders used a wooden box with slopping sides?

 

[Zass]

It seems to me, most successful colony raisers isolate the bucks instead of the does, as removing the doe is unlikely to cause stress, BUT reintroducing her IS likely to cause a problem.

Meanwhile, a buck coming and going causes much less stress to a group of does, as his status doesn't have to be sorted like theirs it's just "buck".

Also, controlling the buck's access helps control when the does become pregnant, as "feeling for grapes" (palpitation) is a learned skill that not all experienced rabbit raisers even have. It's easier to just know when probable pregnancies have occurred and assume all does are pregnant unless proven otherwise.

Single large kits seem to happen when a doe is overweight or out of good breeding condition. I'm not sure the exact reason why, but it's likely the kit didn't survive delivery. Sometimes the does know when they aren't carrying a viable litter, and don't bother to nest. A nestbox for each doe who has been exposed to a buck is always a good idea.