Keeping kits warm. Anyone else have this problem?

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Mk.mom.13

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Just wondering if anyone else has a hard time keeping kits alive during the cold months. I am in Northwest Georgia and it seems like our summers and winters have gotten long. It’s about to start getting cold at night and it’s just cooled off enough during the daytime that I’ve been able to start pairing up. However I’m trying to find ways other than running drop cords to several hutches to keep ‘em warm. They usually either get out of the nesting box and freeze to death or the Moms accidentally smother them either feeding or trying to keep them warm. Anyone else struggle with this that have found a solution?
 
Just wondering if anyone else has a hard time keeping kits alive during the cold months. I am in Northwest Georgia and it seems like our summers and winters have gotten long. It’s about to start getting cold at night and it’s just cooled off enough during the daytime that I’ve been able to start pairing up. However I’m trying to find ways other than running drop cords to several hutches to keep ‘em warm. They usually either get out of the nesting box and freeze to death or the Moms accidentally smother them either feeding or trying to keep them warm. Anyone else struggle with this that have found a solution?
That doesn't sound normal at all, but it does sound like you might need a new nest box design, and maybe better breeding does. Rabbits are very cold-adapted animals and should be able to have and care for babies in fairly cold conditions, certainly at temperatures you'd encounter in Georgia.

Here in south-central Alaska our rabbits routinely have successful litters at temps between 15-30 degrees F, sometimes as cold as 4-6 degrees above zero. (It does seem that having rabbits due to kindle is a sure way to produce a cold snap! :rolleyes:) If the mother does what she's supposed to, the kits do fine.

A few years ago I inherited some metal under-box heaters, but I have never actually used them. After a greenhouse fire due to a malfunctioning heat lamp many years ago, I have steered clear of electrical heat in my barn. The other issue is that making the nest box warmer than the ambient temperature can encourage the doe to sit in the box herself, which usually is a bad thing - see below.

Normally, mother rabbits should build a nest and line it with fur sometime before or during kindling; they will often continue pulling fur for several days afterwards. They will deliver the babies in the nest, clean them (sometimes some of the first-born kits nurse while she is tending to later-born kits), then leave them. Some does reach back in and cover the kits, and the best nest-builders even push up a huge wall of nesting material to conceal the kits. But this is not really necessary, as it is the job of the kits to keep themselves covered (or uncovered if it gets hot). They do this naturally by their digging and burrowing around and under each other and sharing the warmth while they push up a dome of super-insulating fur. If there is enough fur in the box, and enough kits (minimum seems to be 3-4), they will keep themselves toasty warm.

One thing that can go wrong is when young does, especially first-timers, don't build a nest or pull enough fur in time. Then the kits freeze due to lack of insulation to keep their shared body heat in the nest bowl. I usually keep a paper bag of extra fur on hand to put on top of a new litter that isn't covered with a copious amount of fur. I avoid ziploc bags for this, as fur in a plastic bag that will often create condensation and grow moldy, while paper keeps the fur clean but also allows it to air out.

Another thing that can go wrong is when a doe is too curious and repeatedly uncovers the kits. I don't know why they do this but it does occasionally happen. The kits can't survive too many repeated exposures.

The mother will usually go in once or twice a day, uncover the kits to feed them, then quickly leave the kits to re-cover themselves; most does ignore the nest for the rest of the day. Of course there is variation in behavior among individuals, but many or even most does do not brood the young or really make any attempt to keep them warm other than providing fur. You can imagine that in the wild this behavior would be quite adaptive, since the mother rabbit's presence in or around the nest would alert predators to the presence of the nest itself.

Knowing this is useful to the breeder who wants to "shelve" the litter, meaning to pull the nest box out and keep it on a shelf either in the barn or in the house or garage. Taking the box away from the doe when she's not feeding the bunnies can help keep bunnies from popping out; it also prevents the doe from uncovering them, or sitting in the box, or any of the other unhelpful things does sometimes do. When I shelve a litter, I cover the entrance to the nest box with a towel to prevent possible popping-out; it's not a heavy door but it keeps newborns from ejecting by accident. I usually take the box to the mother twice a day, morning and evening, unless I already know her habits (some does feed once a day, some twice). She'll hop right in if she needs to feed them. It takes a few minutes, then she hops back out, and I take the box back to the house. Our family actually really enjoys the process, and the kits get a lot of attention from day one, and end up super tame and friendly.

In fact, females that like to sit in the nest box when they're not feeding the kits cause the most problems for me. Not only do they soil the nest box and even worse, make it wet, but when the kits know she's there, some will crawl forward out of the warm nest bowl looking for lunch. If the doe is not ready to feed them, she can jump around trying to avoid them, possibly smashing them, or leap out of the box, possibly dragging some kits with her. Even if she doesn't drag any out, the litter is then scattered around in the box, and very young kits can sometimes get chilled before they can find the rest of the litter in nest bowl again. I wonder if this might be happening to your rabbits.

When I have a box-sitter, I usually give her a very small nest box, so that it is not really comfortable for her to sit in it. It's amazing how small a box they will build their nests in - some of my boxes are barely bigger than the rabbits themselves. They take care of their kits just fine, but don't spend any extra time in the box. I also give those does something else to sit on, in case they're in the box because they're trying to get off the wire.

Another trick that has helped us prevent pop-outs is making the nest box floor slope toward the back, so that gravity keeps the kits in the back of the box. We've done this several ways: actually building the nest box with a sloping floor; propping the box up in front (I don't really like this approach because if the kits still manage to get out, they sometimes get stuck underneath the box); or tilting the whole cage slightly. My cages are hung, so it's easy to adjust the angle.

One more approach to preventing pop-outs is to build a lip along the entrance of the box that extends inward, and acts to kind of scrape off kits as the mother is leaving. They are kind of a pain to build, and I haven't found these to be particularly effective, but some people really like them.

I don't have too many problems anymore, but I'm currently thinking about trying a below-cage nest box. It's a wire-bottomed box that hangs down under the cage. Kits can't fall out, they're less likely to be able to hang onto the doe as she leaves, if they do somehow get out they can roll back in, and the does don't seem inclined to sit in them. You do have to cut a hole in the cage floor, which is why I haven't done it yet, but it might worth trying.

Finally, I think that part of why I don't have many problems anymore is that I don't generally keep problem does. Mothering behaviors are definitely heritable, and I want our rabbits to be as naturally healthy and low-maintenance as possible. Even my first-timers usually do just fine. If I have a doe that is a persistent box-sitter, I usually remove her from the breeding line-up, too. I know that many beginning breeders simply have the rabbits they can find and afford, and don't have the luxury of picking the best-mothering does, but it is a good idea to keep it in mind for the future: in most characteristics, you get what you breed.

Hopefully some of this will be helpful to you. You should definitely be able to raise rabbits in Georgia's fall weather. Other folks on this forum will probably have some helpful thoughts and ideas as well.
 
I closed use wooden nest boxes, with just one opening, in winter I put a heating element (12V/10W silicon heating pad connected to an adjustable power supply) under one back corner of the box, appr. 3-5W do the job nicely with the floor being appr. 2cm boards. I also stuff some hay in the entrance when I come by.
I use the same pads for their water crocks.

Not sure if they would need it, but it sure doesn't hurt. Although they are cold hardy, usually the nest is underground, safe from freezing temperatures.
 
That doesn't sound normal at all, but it does sound like you might need a new nest box design, and maybe better breeding does. Rabbits are very cold-adapted animals and should be able to have and care for babies in fairly cold conditions, certainly at temperatures you'd encounter in Georgia.

Here in south-central Alaska our rabbits routinely have successful litters at temps between 15-30 degrees F, sometimes as cold as 4-6 degrees above zero. (It does seem that having rabbits due to kindle is a sure way to produce a cold snap! :rolleyes:) If the mother does what she's supposed to, the kits do fine.

A few years ago I inherited some metal under-box heaters, but I have never actually used them. After a greenhouse fire due to a malfunctioning heat lamp many years ago, I have steered clear of electrical heat in my barn. The other issue is that making the nest box warmer than the ambient temperature can encourage the doe to sit in the box herself, which usually is a bad thing - see below.

Normally, mother rabbits should build a nest and line it with fur sometime before or during kindling; they will often continue pulling fur for several days afterwards. They will deliver the babies in the nest, clean them (sometimes some of the first-born kits nurse while she is tending to later-born kits), then leave them. Some does reach back in and cover the kits, and the best nest-builders even push up a huge wall of nesting material to conceal the kits. But this is not really necessary, as it is the job of the kits to keep themselves covered (or uncovered if it gets hot). They do this naturally by their digging and burrowing around and under each other and sharing the warmth while they push up a dome of super-insulating fur. If there is enough fur in the box, and enough kits (minimum seems to be 3-4), they will keep themselves toasty warm.

One thing that can go wrong is when young does, especially first-timers, don't build a nest or pull enough fur in time. Then the kits freeze due to lack of insulation to keep their shared body heat in the nest bowl. I usually keep a paper bag of extra fur on hand to put on top of a new litter that isn't covered with a copious amount of fur. I avoid ziploc bags for this, as fur in a plastic bag that will often create condensation and grow moldy, while paper keeps the fur clean but also allows it to air out.

Another thing that can go wrong is when a doe is too curious and repeatedly uncovers the kits. I don't know why they do this but it does occasionally happen. The kits can't survive too many repeated exposures.

The mother will usually go in once or twice a day, uncover the kits to feed them, then quickly leave the kits to re-cover themselves; most does ignore the nest for the rest of the day. Of course there is variation in behavior among individuals, but many or even most does do not brood the young or really make any attempt to keep them warm other than providing fur. You can imagine that in the wild this behavior would be quite adaptive, since the mother rabbit's presence in or around the nest would alert predators to the presence of the nest itself.

Knowing this is useful to the breeder who wants to "shelve" the litter, meaning to pull the nest box out and keep it on a shelf either in the barn or in the house or garage. Taking the box away from the doe when she's not feeding the bunnies can help keep bunnies from popping out; it also prevents the doe from uncovering them, or sitting in the box, or any of the other unhelpful things does sometimes do. When I shelve a litter, I cover the entrance to the nest box with a towel to prevent possible popping-out; it's not a heavy door but it keeps newborns from ejecting by accident. I usually take the box to the mother twice a day, morning and evening, unless I already know her habits (some does feed once a day, some twice). She'll hop right in if she needs to feed them. It takes a few minutes, then she hops back out, and I take the box back to the house. Our family actually really enjoys the process, and the kits get a lot of attention from day one, and end up super tame and friendly.

In fact, females that like to sit in the nest box when they're not feeding the kits cause the most problems for me. Not only do they soil the nest box and even worse, make it wet, but when the kits know she's there, some will crawl forward out of the warm nest bowl looking for lunch. If the doe is not ready to feed them, she can jump around trying to avoid them, possibly smashing them, or leap out of the box, possibly dragging some kits with her. Even if she doesn't drag any out, the litter is then scattered around in the box, and very young kits can sometimes get chilled before they can find the rest of the litter in nest bowl again. I wonder if this might be happening to your rabbits.

When I have a box-sitter, I usually give her a very small nest box, so that it is not really comfortable for her to sit in it. It's amazing how small a box they will build their nests in - some of my boxes are barely bigger than the rabbits themselves. They take care of their kits just fine, but don't spend any extra time in the box. I also give those does something else to sit on, in case they're in the box because they're trying to get off the wire.

Another trick that has helped us prevent pop-outs is making the nest box floor slope toward the back, so that gravity keeps the kits in the back of the box. We've done this several ways: actually building the nest box with a sloping floor; propping the box up in front (I don't really like this approach because if the kits still manage to get out, they sometimes get stuck underneath the box); or tilting the whole cage slightly. My cages are hung, so it's easy to adjust the angle.

One more approach to preventing pop-outs is to build a lip along the entrance of the box that extends inward, and acts to kind of scrape off kits as the mother is leaving. They are kind of a pain to build, and I haven't found these to be particularly effective, but some people really like them.

I don't have too many problems anymore, but I'm currently thinking about trying a below-cage nest box. It's a wire-bottomed box that hangs down under the cage. Kits can't fall out, they're less likely to be able to hang onto the doe as she leaves, if they do somehow get out they can roll back in, and the does don't seem inclined to sit in them. You do have to cut a hole in the cage floor, which is why I haven't done it yet, but it might worth trying.

Finally, I think that part of why I don't have many problems anymore is that I don't generally keep problem does. Mothering behaviors are definitely heritable, and I want our rabbits to be as naturally healthy and low-maintenance as possible. Even my first-timers usually do just fine. If I have a doe that is a persistent box-sitter, I usually remove her from the breeding line-up, too. I know that many beginning breeders simply have the rabbits they can find and afford, and don't have the luxury of picking the best-mothering does, but it is a good idea to keep it in mind for the future: in most characteristics, you get what you breed.

Hopefully some of this will be helpful to you. You should definitely be able to raise rabbits in Georgia's fall weather. Other folks on this forum will probably have some helpful thoughts and ideas as well.
Hello

Thanks for this extensive post. I found it very thorough. I felt it necessary to check the forums because we’ve been running into a really odd problem for us. Our main breeding NZ doe recently gave us a litter of 11 but the week following birth we were finding frozen kits completely outside the box and even in the adjacent hutches. We thought maybe she removed them from the nest but given this is her 4th litter and she’s never done it before I thought it was kind of implausible. My best guess is that she feeds that in the evening and she accidentally pulls them out when she jumps out of the nest as the kits are feeding.

In any case… we only have 3 left and we shelf them at night. I’m thinking about rebreeding given she’s used to larger sized litters. Please let me know what you think and if there’s any viable way to prevent this.
Thanks God bless
 
Hello

Thanks for this extensive post. I found it very thorough. I felt it necessary to check the forums because we’ve been running into a really odd problem for us. Our main breeding NZ doe recently gave us a litter of 11 but the week following birth we were finding frozen kits completely outside the box and even in the adjacent hutches. We thought maybe she removed them from the nest but given this is her 4th litter and she’s never done it before I thought it was kind of implausible. My best guess is that she feeds that in the evening and she accidentally pulls them out when she jumps out of the nest as the kits are feeding.

In any case… we only have 3 left and we shelf them at night. I’m thinking about rebreeding given she’s used to larger sized litters. Please let me know what you think and if there’s any viable way to prevent this.
Thanks God bless
When you found the dead kits, were they well-fed, or were they skinny? One or two pop-outs is not all that unusual, but if it's a repeated problem I'd be wondering if the kits were getting enough to eat. In my experience, when a litter is too big for the doe to feed, it's not just the smallest one or two that go without, but instead, most of the bunnies don't get enough nutrition; there might be one or two that are fat, however most of them get just enough to survive, but not thrive. Many of my first-year does have litters of 14-16 kits, and if I don't have foster mothers available, even though culling is heartbreaking to me, I know that if I don't somehow reduce the litter to a manageable size, I will lose not just a few but many, even a majority of the kits.

Perhaps your doe wasn't able to feed 11 kits well enough this time; even if she usually raises large litters, at this time of year, your doe's hormones are at a seasonal low. (I don't breed for December or January litters for this reason. By far, the greatest number of losses for my rabbits have occurred in those two months.) And if the bunnies weren't getting enough to eat, they were probably either desperately hanging on to her as she left the box, or crawling around looking for something to eat, or both. Especially if you found them having made their way into adjacent hutches, that would be my suspicion.

So, to try to prevent this from happening again, my suggestions would include keeping an eye on the feeding status of kits in large litters - e.g. check them daily to make sure they're being well fed. If you find that the kits look bony or have hollow bellies or wrinkly skin, either foster or cull some of them, so that all of them don't suffer. And even if kits look well-fed, as soon as you find even one outside the box, I'd think about shelving the litter to be on the safe side. It tends to be the second and third weeks that are critical in this regard, and that's not all that long to be carrying the box back and forth. Of course if the doe has this problem repeatedly, I'd replace her, but it sounds like your doe is usually a good performer.

If she's only got the three kits, I'd think about rebreeding her when they were 3-4 weeks old, unless the doe looks like she's lost condition and needs a break. But starting about now, you should see hormones increasing. My first breedings will be next week, and I usually have some of the most successful litters of each year born in February and March.

Hope that's helpful, and God bless! :)
 
Yep x2. What did the kits look like? Hopefully someone has some pics they can share. Once you see it, it's pretty easy to tell the fed kits from the hungry ones that haven't eaten.
And if they were starving it may be why they were getting pulled out of the nest. They were trying to get on the nipple that the siblings had been nursing and holding on.

I can't remember exactly with rabbits so hopefully someone can chime in. With pigs you always count the teats to see how many they have. Ergo, the maximum piglets they can feed. And if they have 10 teats and 10 piglets but 2 are skinny and starving then she probably has 2 non functional teats. Piglets tend to always go back to "their spot" at the same nipple.
So if she has alot of kits and the milk is only flowing in a couple then you'll have the same problem next litter and know what the problem is.
 
Yep x2. What did the kits look like? Hopefully someone has some pics they can share. Once you see it, it's pretty easy to tell the fed kits from the hungry ones that haven't eaten.
And if they were starving it may be why they were getting pulled out of the nest. They were trying to get on the nipple that the siblings had been nursing and holding on.

I can't remember exactly with rabbits so hopefully someone can chime in. With pigs you always count the teats to see how many they have. Ergo, the maximum piglets they can feed. And if they have 10 teats and 10 piglets but 2 are skinny and starving then she probably has 2 non functional teats. Piglets tend to always go back to "their spot" at the same nipple.
So if she has alot of kits and the milk is only flowing in a couple then you'll have the same problem next litter and know what the problem is.
Most of my rabbits have 8 teats, but they usually raise 10-11 kits easily (at 12 I usually split them up into foster nests to avoid overtaxing the doe). At least in my rabbits, kits don't seem to have a favorite teat; I often can see them bopping around from one to another while they're nursing. In this way, all the kits get fed even if there are more kits than teats, unless there are so many that the smaller ones get steamrolled.

In my experience, rather than the number of teats, it's more the doe's fitness and the amount of milk she produces that determine how well the kits do. That varies from doe to doe, but it also varies with the time of year and the doe's current state of health. If kits aren't well-fed or the doe is losing weight, I add BOSS (for extra fat) to the doe's diet and that usually does the trick.
 
This might be helpful.

https://rabbittalk.com/threads/fed-vs-unfed-kit-pictures.3052/
To help keep the kits warm on an unusually cold night, try a hot water bottle. Any bottle with a good leak-proof screw cap will work. Preheat with hot water and then refill. Slide a thick sock over the bottle for insulation and lay the bottle along one side of the nest. The kits can then gravitate toward or away from the heat according to need. The bottle will be tepid by morning, so perhaps swap for a fresh one then. I've had good results using this method.
 
Most of my rabbits have 8 teats, but they usually raise 10-11 kits easily (at 12 I usually split them up into foster nests to avoid overtaxing the doe). At least in my rabbits, kits don't seem to have a favorite teat; I often can see them bopping around from one to another while they're nursing. In this way, all the kits get fed even if there are more kits than teats, unless there are so many that the smaller ones get steamrolled.

In my experience, rather than the number of teats, it's more the doe's fitness and the amount of milk she produces that determine how well the kits do. That varies from doe to doe, but it also varies with the time of year and the doe's current state of health. If kits aren't well-fed or the doe is losing weight, I add BOSS (for extra fat) to the doe's diet and that usually does the trick.
Good to know

We just had 2 does kindle. One had 12 and the over only 7. I found a dead kit in the 12 pile. I was kinda confused given he couldn’t have froze since he was well covered in fur. Maybe he wasn’t being fed milk with all the competition? Would you suggest splitting the litter so both does have equal kits? I’m somewhat reticent given I’ve heard heard horror stories of does ostracizing kits she knows aren’t hers but I’ve never actually tried it myself. We’re only getting about 11 hours of light a day here in western CO so I don’t know if that will make a serious negative impact on our does’ lactation. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks God Bless!
 
Good to know

We just had 2 does kindle. One had 12 and the over only 7. I found a dead kit in the 12 pile. I was kinda confused given he couldn’t have froze since he was well covered in fur. Maybe he wasn’t being fed milk with all the competition? Would you suggest splitting the litter so both does have equal kits? I’m somewhat reticent given I’ve heard heard horror stories of does ostracizing kits she knows aren’t hers but I’ve never actually tried it myself. We’re only getting about 11 hours of light a day here in western CO so I don’t know if that will make a serious negative impact on our does’ lactation. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks God Bless!
Yes, 12 kits is a lot of competition, and in most litters that large or larger you'll have several kits that fail, and more that are just barely getting by. And in a large litter, some are born smaller and weaker (there's competition in the womb as well!), and just don't have what it takes to struggle to survive in a large litter. If I don't have a foster nest, I usually cull the smallest kits of any litter over 10, since if I don't, many more of the kits seem to suffer - at least a few of them don't ever get quite enough, and I lose them one at a time. My rabbits can generally raise 10 without difficulties, but in the past, if I left 14-16 kits with them, they usually ended up with only 6-8 survivors. Twelve is kind of a middle number that could go wither way, but I always try to keep it to 10 or less if I have the option.

My suggestion would be to pull two kits out and put them with the doe that has seven, so each doe has nine. I've never actually had problems with kit rejection as long as the kits are still young. The doe normally only visits the box once or twice a day, so if you're concerned, pull the nest boxes out in the morning and move the kits, then don't return the box till nighttime. By them the kits should all smell pretty similar. Let her nurse them, then take the box back out again. You could even do this for another day or two so the doe doesn't have time to get up to trouble if she's a particularly curious one. While you have the nest box in the house (or wherever), keep track to make sure all the kits are getting fed. If there are a couple that are not getting enough, it's possible to take the biggest kits out for one feeding, to let the less competitive kits have a chance; missing a single meal isn't a huge deal for healthy kits. It's a good idea to mark those smaller ones somehow as non-keepers, as you don't want to perpetuate weakness in your stock, but if you're raising meat rabbits you want as many of them to make to fryer weight as possible.

The light should be plenty for lactation. We're still not quite at 9hrs 20min here and our litters are doing fine. If you want to increase lactation, try adding a little extra fat. @Robochelle says that dried nettle can increase milk production but I've not used that; might be worth a try for you.

God bless you and the bunnies!
 
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As Alaska Satin said, I have had unfailing success with dried nettle. You can find it at health food stores, and it has not let me down. Best to have on hand just in case of a low fed kindle. I give one or two teaspoon a day til all kits have bulging bellies, and usually see significant improvement even on the first day. So far every doe I've used it on gets excited to eat it so it must be tasty.

if you have stinging nettle growing as a weed, you can use that as well, stalk and all, just to be safe I wait till it's wilted so that the stinging oils evaporate.
 
As Alaska Satin said, I have had unfailing success with dried nettle. You can find it at health food stores, and it has not let me down. Best to have on hand just in case of a low fed kindle. I give one or two teaspoon a day til all kits have bulging bellies, and usually see significant improvement even on the first day. So far every doe I've used it on gets excited to eat it so it must be tasty.

if you have stinging nettle growing as a weed, you can use that as well, stalk and all, just to be safe I wait till it's wilted so that the stinging oils evaporate.
My doe Chocolate Truffle had her litter of 12 this morning. I gave her dried nettle. I figured with that many kits it would be helpful. The next youngest litters are 1 week (8 kits)and (9 kits,) 8 days old. Wasn't sure that they weren't too old to slip them into. I think Oreo would accept one or two. Is a week too old? All the kits felt fine and looked well when I checked on them. Chocolate Truffle is my largest doe and in great shape. I've actually never fostered kits out. Is there a time frame?
 
I put a kit from a litter of 12 into a litter of 7 at 2 weeks old. The 7 were 4 days younger. But they were bigger. Doing fine together.
I appreciate your sharing this. I know that the new kits are smaller, but Oreo's been a great mum, very protective. Although, in the wild, her kits would not have survived as she runs straight to her babies to "protect" them. lol I'm happy to hear that a week won't necessarily be an issue.
 
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