Is he too young? First timers together

[EnglishSpot]

My NZR buck, Wheatley, is four months old. He's got all his bits and dangly pieces. A month ago I put him in with an experienced doe and and she was lifting for him and getting frustrated. He'd mount and thrust (I had to teach him the right end LOL) but all he really wanted to do was groom her nothing else. I suspected he was still too young, but I figured it couldn't hurt to try.

Today, I put him in with a virgin doe and he got right to the task of checking her out and mounting, followed by thrusting, but no finish. Granted, she didn't lift for him either, so that is a factor. I left them together for about ten minutes and when she started getting aggressive on him, I took her out of his cage. No way am I going to make Wheatley gun shy!!! I'm going to try these two again tomorrow (July 3) in case she gets in the mood tonight.

My question: is he still too young? Right now he's got all the motions and actions correct, but isn't seeming to get to the finish line. Are bucks who aren't sexually mature unable to finish? Or do you think it was mostly the doe not being ready??

 

[SableSteel]

I'd wait... Even if he is sexually mature, you should wait until they are like 5-6 months old for sperm to develop... otherwise even if you get a litter, its likely to be a small litter.
The first time you bred him, he was probably young and inexperienced, but this time, it sounds like the doe's not ready... trying to breed them can make them more ready to breed though, so I'd retry her later today or tomorrow.

 

[Susie570]

Actually, you may well be surprised to have kits in a month. I don't know how many times I've read about pregnant does from bucks with no 'fall off' and no 'lifting'. Heck, I have one right now!

He's a little young and inexperienced, but sounds like he's functional.

I haven't heard that a young buck would produce a smaller litter, so I would take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Prisma]

I've never had an issue with breeding bucks young; quite the opposite actually. Young bucks or bucks in prime years produce the better amount of viable sperm than an older senior buck (MOST of the time, not always even though older bucks can and do certainly produce very well as I have older bucks myself and use them on a normal basis in HL). I've never had it affect growth in bucks or litter size, does I've seen breeding too early stunt growth. The doe is more what regulates the size of the litter than the buck any way imo/experience; if she drops only 8 eggs...there will only be 8 kids even if he deposits thousands sperm. General rule is, if the buck has'm he can certainly try to get a doe pregnant. That's why dwarf/small/quick growing breeders watch their bucklings close; I've had very young ones breed.

There's another thing, have you checked him directly after breeding for a split penis? Bucks that are split towards the bottom or only slightly may not be visible until they are excited or try breeding a doe, then it becomes vary apparent if catch while he's still excited. While he may be able to breed, it is a genetic issue in most cases. It can happen by severe injury and there is a few suggesting some kind of environmental/other issue but they are not suitable really for breeding even if they can do produce a litter as there is too high a chance of it being genetic and getting passed on. How hot has it been there too? Once temps start hitting 80+ can have sterility issues.

 

[SableSteel]

"Does mature earlier than bucks, which do not achieve optimum sperm production and reserves until 40-70 days after puberty." - page 154 of Ferrets, Rabbits, and Rodents Clincial Medicine and Study by Hillyer & Quesenberry (Can't find any of my other rabbit books on me right now)

I don't think this has to do as much with sterility or the buck being ready in this case as much as it has to do with a doe that's not in the mood to breed

 

[Prisma]

How old is that book? I know of no one that says does mature faster than bucks. Does take longer to be at senior weight and to come into prime condition, even for show purposes. I've never seen that before or heard of it.

 

[SableSteel]

I known of nobody who doesn't say that, but it only really applies if you breed bucks extremely young. It's a 1997 book

 

[EnglishSpot]

Thank you for weighing in, everyone!

I put them together again this morning and this time she lifted for him and was in the mood a bit more. He did all the thrusts and such but no dramatic fall offs (maybe my Mini Rex is really just an over-the-top drama queen when it comes to fall offs?) and both he and she were tired afterward (no cigarettes in the garage, please). I'll try again tomorrow, but I want to put him to my proven NZR doe later and see if there is any difference.

I know some say the bigger rabbits aren't necessarily sexually mature until about six months old, but I know of one NZR buck who got the job done at 4 months--the sire of my current NZR broken litter!! <br /><br /> -- Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:32 pm -- <br /><br /> I put Megan in with Wheatley this morning and left them together for about a half hour. I don't know if she really lifted for him or not, but he seemed to know what to do this time!! I'm looking forward to babies in a month (I hope) from both Heaven and Megan!! If not... well, Wheatley will be a month older, but let me tell you, I'm almost 100% positive he covered both girls!!