I'm about to throw in the towel

[JessicaR]

I am just about ready to quit with rabbits! I don't know what is going on with them but it seems like every time I think things are going good, one of them dies. Today I just lost our 3 week old harlequin lionhead kit, of course it figures he is the kit I have a waiting list for, everyone wants a harli kit. We lost the REW kit last week. Don't know what is wrong they was fine one day next day dead. :evil: And to make matters even better Snowball (mom), hasn't ate or drank for 3 days now! She is getting very thin and lethargic. This is the second lionhead doe I have had this happen to, one day they are fine, next day they quit eating and drinking, both does had a litter of kits when this happened. I have switched feed since the first doe (culled her), also since then I cleaned everything out, they are in wire cages, new nestbox.

I have started to add oatmeal to the pellets in hopes that the 2 remaining kits will make it if mom dies or dries up.

I just don't know what else to do. We are down to just the 2 lionheads and the used to be 4 kits, now only 2. I was going to get some meat rabbits at the end of this month, but now I am really debating on whether or not I should. Raising rabbits should not be this stressful! My daughter is going to be so upset if she dies.

Oh should also add, Snowball was born and raised here.

 

[amandainohio24]

Are the babies presenting any issues? Earlier this year we lost 5 out of 7 babies from a litter, only saved the 2 by giving gas drops several times a day for several days (lost them around 5 weeks old). Might want to syringe some water into her mouth to keep her hydrated. Any chance she has wool block going on? Our Lionheads are almost all in a heavy molt right now.

If for some reason you end up looking for another Lionhead doe we have a 4month old REW that carries otter (did not realize that when we bought her so only thing we have that we would be able to breed her to would be another rew) that we are going to be selling since we only breed for showing purposes. If you would want any info on her just let me know.

 

[akane]

3 days without food and getting lethargic probably means she has gone into GI stasis and will die if you don't get her digestive tract moving now. Simethicone, in gas medicine and liquid form for children, as much fiber as possible, and practically anything she is willing to eat. You want to avoid stuff too high in sugar especially without enough fiber or you'll encourage more gas and inflammation but otherwise any vegetable matter she will eat. Oatmeal, sunflower seeds, dandelions, plantains, safe tree branches, hay..... Check the natural feeding section. Get the rest on grass hay and oatmeal until you sort things out. It is possible to have several feeds with the same issues if both are made locally at your mill with the same source of an ingredient. If any rabbit fails to eat in 24 hrs you need to take immediate action to avoid GI stasis. Give them tastier food than pellets and all the hay they will eat until you can get them back to normal.

You may want to investigate possible parasites or coccidiosis infection. It can cause sudden GI problems and death with little warning. The ones getting ready to wean are most easily affected. Most vets will do a fecal egg count with a few fresh droppings. Further testing for other infections can be done but cost will vary and some vets will insist on seeing the animal with an exam charge.

 

[Miss M]

You've got excellent advice already.

Snowball is way into emergency territory. Like Akane said, just about anything you can get her to eat -- try to keep it low sugar, but you might have to tempt her with light coatings of molasses, or pineapple, or whatever. She must start eating, and it may already be too late.

Think outside the box. If you have canned pumpkin, that is fine for rabbits.

If you cannot syringe fluids into her, or tempt her to drink with gatorade or tea or pineapple liquid or molasses in the water or whatever... you may need to inject subcutaneous fluids. This is frequently done in the lower area of the side. Make sure that once you insert the needle, you first pull back on the plunger to make sure you have not hit a blood vessel. If you get blood, you must partially remove and then reinsert and test again. If you get a bunch of air bubbles, you have probably gone into the skin and then back out again.

With them all, the simethicone is a good idea, and you might want to worm them. This can be done with ivermectin or with pumpkin seeds (ivermectin can cause a bad reaction in certain rabbits... seems to run with the Vienna gene). Another member here recently attributed a lot of kit deaths in her rabbitry to coccidiosis, as well.

 

[JessicaR]

I found her dead and stiff this morning I know I should do an autopsy, but I just cant bring myself to do it. What is weird is she died in a relaxed looking pose, laying down (not on her side) head in the normal position and ears up, I thought she was just relaxing when I first looked in the cage, until I touched her.

I was trying to force water in her (forgot to mention that), that is how I saved the last doe, that I ended up culling because she never looked right after that. I have always given them fresh grass, like dandelion and plantain, plus mulberry leaves and sticks. She wouldn't even eat that.

I will have to get some grass hay for the babies, I only have alfalfa right now. It looks and smells fine, but maybe I should quit using it? I was using Rural King brand pellets, switched to Manna Pro after the problems with the first doe, plus I got new hay just in case something was wrong with the old bale.

Amanda, the babies are showing no problems, one day they are happily hopping around, and running to the door for pets, the next day dead. None of the rabbits are molting right now, they decided to do that at fair time :roll: Also the buck, who is caged right next door is just fine.
Thanks for the offer, I would love to, but I don't know, she sounds nice, our buck also has otter in his lines, and I love otters. But I would hate to add another rabbit for her to just get sick and die. I think I need to figure out what is going on first.

How much ivermectin should I give? I know there was a chart somewhere but I cant seem to find it, and should I use it on the kits or just on the buck? I can pick up some pumpkin seeds for the babies and hope they eat them. I also think I will bring them inside since it has been getting a little chilly at night.

 

[Dood]

You should really do a necropsy.

I had a nearly due doe go off feed, I tried everything and she started getting better but went down hill again after her kits we're weaned so I culled her - a necropsy revealed she had an internal abcess under her ribs that collapsed her left lung and was now encroaching on her heart.

PS Ivermectin is not considered effective against pin worms which are the most common ones found in rabbits. Fenbendazole is the recommended treatment.

 

[bantambunnies]

I'm so sorry That's awful.

When the babies die, do they have messy bottoms? Or are they clean?
When the does were still alive, did you try palpating their abdomens? I just had a doe die of what I think must have been GI stasis, and I could easily feel a large lump of food close to the ribcage and nothing in the lower part, signifying a blockage.
And have you noticed anything strange about the droppings shortly before they die?

The alfalfa may be part of the problem. They need the fiber that's in grass hay. And you might try fresh papaya or pineapple, or try bromelain or papaya enzyme tablets from the drugstore.

If you don't want to do the necropsy, can you find someone else to do it? At least around here, I know a lot of hunters who probably are familiar with the inside of a rabbit. I don't know what it's like in Ohio.

If you do use the Ivermectin, I think the dose is 1/10 cc for a 5 lb rabbit... you might want to check on that though. I think 0.1 mm is the same as 1/10 of a cc.

 

[amandainohio24]

I found her dead and stiff this morning I know I should do an autopsy, but I just cant bring myself to do it. What is weird is she died in a relaxed looking pose, laying down (not on her side) head in the normal position and ears up, I thought she was just relaxing when I first looked in the cage, until I touched her.

I was trying to force water in her (forgot to mention that), that is how I saved the last doe, that I ended up culling because she never looked right after that. I have always given them fresh grass, like dandelion and plantain, plus mulberry leaves and sticks. She wouldn't even eat that.

I will have to get some grass hay for the babies, I only have alfalfa right now. It looks and smells fine, but maybe I should quit using it? I was using Rural King brand pellets, switched to Manna Pro after the problems with the first doe, plus I got new hay just in case something was wrong with the old bale.

Amanda, the babies are showing no problems, one day they are happily hopping around, and running to the door for pets, the next day dead. None of the rabbits are molting right now, they decided to do that at fair time :roll: Also the buck, who is caged right next door is just fine.
Thanks for the offer, I would love to, but I don't know, she sounds nice, our buck also has otter in his lines, and I love otters. But I would hate to add another rabbit for her to just get sick and die. I think I need to figure out what is going on first.

How much ivermectin should I give? I know there was a chart somewhere but I cant seem to find it, and should I use it on the kits or just on the buck? I can pick up some pumpkin seeds for the babies and hope they eat them. I also think I will bring them inside since it has been getting a little chilly at night.

How long ago did you buy your bag from Rural King? Not too long ago when we went to buy some (same brand) the bags had gotten wet at some point and were bloated, still out for sale.
If you need to find a new supplier for the hay, Zach's friend is who we buy ours from for $4 per bale although it is also an alfalfa based (some grass hay mixed in but not much).
Kind of sounds like what we started with on our litter we lost almost all of. The 1st 2 did not show any symptoms just dead the next morning. The last in the litter got jelly poo and we lost them. Might want to treat everyone with some Corrid. Which reminds me I still want to do after all the issues that were happening at the fair this year with rabbits dying.
No hurry on deciding on the doe, I have a doe coming up from Cincinnati on the 28th that will not be carrying otter that is going to replace her so I have until roughly the 24th to decide what to do with her.

 

[squidpop]

Those symptoms could be so many different things. I don't have that much faith in vets but if you know a good one that knows what to look for—Better to get a necropsy and tests done by the vet. Hopefully they will be able to figure out if its coccidiosis, e. coli, or pinworms and then you will know what to treat with. Without going to a vet -- my guess would be cocci.

 

[JessicaR]

right now I can not afford to take any of them to the vets, too many Dr. bills from this pregnancy I will call and see if they will do a fecal without me having to bring one in.

Amanda, I just bought the food last week, it looks and smells just fine to me

So far my buck is still looking and acting just fine. The 2 tort kits are still alive, but the little doe doesn't look as good as her brother, she is smaller and thinner. The little buck on the other hand is a little bugger :lol: very active nice and chunky, and almost twice the size of the doe, but she always was the smallest in the litter. <br /><br /> -- Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:14 am -- <br /><br /> Ok now I feel really stupid

I dug up the rabbit and did a necropsy on her She had wool block she must have been eating the fur she pulled for her kits. There was a bunch of fur in her stomach, and her intestines was empty. I guess I need to check on the rabbits more often, I don't always feed them everyday, the kids also take turns feeding them. I also will tell them, that they need to let me know if they ever notice food left in the bowls.

 

[squidpop]

That was so brave that you did the necropsy yourself. At least you know it was wool block and not cocci.

I just posted about this on another post... but I'm a strong believer in syringing lots of electrolytes/fluids if a rabbit shows signs of blockage or wool block. There are people who believe wool block happens when the gut is not hydrated enough to handle the fur going through- so they believe wool block is a symptom of dehydration. So everytime one of my Jersey Woolies refuses food I syringe feed 2-3 tablespoons of electrolytes- wait an hour then some semethicone- wait an 2-3 more hours and syringe 2-3 tablespoons more fluids. I've done this with 4 rabbits now and they all have come right by morning the next day. I know I might just be lucky, but so far its been working for me and syringing fluids can never hurt.

 

[amandainohio24]

At least you were able to put your mind at rest as to what was going on with her.

 

[katiebear]

this might be a stupid question and I don't mean to jack your thread but I was wondering if only long haired rabbits get wool block?
I have a doe F.G. mix so short hair but she is in full molt.She is swallowing quite a bit of fur, she is passing a lot of fur.I have been giving her pineapple she isn't to fond of it. I am going to try papaya. she is fine she is eating and drinking normally.
I just wanted to know if this is something I should be watching out for? Thank You!

 

[Dood]

Yes it is, any rabbit can get wool block but long haired breeds are more prone to it because their fur more easily gets tangled into fur balls that cannot be passed out of the stomach.