I think I am finally getting this!

[TerriG]

I'm afraid my questions are driving you all nuts and that you roll your eyes when you see me posting. I think I am finally starting to get this whole genetics thing. I made myself a spreadsheet and put the doe and buck and the kits that resulted from those breedings. Then I started filling in the phenotype (that's the one you see, right?) and then looked to see what else I could fill in based on what the kits carried.

I have a couple of questions that I am having a hard time finding answers to on google.

1. My black buck (Shadow) is all black, including nails, but he has white guard hairs like a silver marten. We do know that there is silver marten somewhere back in his line. Not sure how far back. My question is on the 'a' allele.
A black rabbit carries the 'aa', but the marten carries the 'at'. Are those white hairs just mis-marked and he would have 'aa' or is it part marten and he would be 'at'?
Don't know how well you can see, but here he is:

2. As we have talked about on here, I have a kit that you all suspect is frosty (thanks!). I know it has to do with the 'c(chd)' allele. Is it that they have a double? I think someone said something about that, but I can't find anything that spells it out. If it is 'c(chd)c(chd)' then I know that both parents have the 'c(chd)' allele. Right now, I only know for certain that the doe does (she is agouti). It would be one more thing I can fill in on the buck.

 

[Bad Habit]

http://www.doubledeckerrabbitry.com/rabbit_color_genetics

I like that website, it tells you the genetics that a rabbit must have to be whatever colour.

I think it said Frosty is cchd_ meaning it's a hetero gene to display, not a homo gene.

 

[Dood]

"A_" is most dominant
"at_" is next
"aa " is least

So an "at at" rabbit and an "at a" rabbit will both be tan marked. Your black rabbits white hairs are just miss markings-pluck them out.

I am just learning about frosty but I believe it is an agouti (A_) tort (ee) and shaded (cch_)

This article was pretty detailed http://www.nockrabbits.com/frosty.html

 

[TerriG]

I will have to take a look at those sites. Thank you.

I understand the dominance on the 'a' allele. The reason I am asking is because the doe is Agoudi ('A_') and the buck is Palomino ('A_'). We got 3 tan kits (maybe pals like their Dad?), one Chinchilla, one Frosty, and one Silver Marten. All of them would be 'A_" except for the Marten. He would be an 'at_'. So that makes me believe that either both the doe and buck are 'Aat' or one would be 'Aa' and the other 'Aat'. The only way we would get a Marten would be 'atat' or 'ata'. Right?

 

[Dood]

Right

 

[Bad Habit]

:yeahthat:

 

[skysthelimit]

If the silver was from the marten, he would have tan markings. The silver of a silver martin is the chin gene. Chin could act on the black, but that is still considered mismarked. Now a silver fox markings come from a different gene. Is there any Silver fox in the ped?
Frosty is one chin gene, two copies isn't necessary, the chin gene strips color away from full color agouti rabbits.<br /><br />__________ Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:37 pm __________<br /><br />Have you gotten any self colored kits from the pairing? Blacks or blues?

 

[TerriG]

Ok, so I am actually understanding this! Yay!

I don't have pedigrees for any of my rabbits All I can go off of is what the breeder told us. We saw the Mom of our black buck. I can't remember if she was full or 1/2, but it was checkered giant. I know from her ad that the breeder also has silver marten and satins that were bred in for their qualities. There is no mention of silver fox, nor did we see any on site. The breeder had the most gorgeous red satin buck, but she kept him for herself. Don't blame her.

She had Califonian, her black line, her Palomino line, the Checkered giant, can't remember what else right now.

re: Our Silver Marten kit and those genetics
We have not gotten any selfs with either litter that our Palomino fathered. When we bred him with our Agoudi, then we got the ones I listed earlier (marten, chin, frosty, and tan (I'm referring to tan as the coat color. I should probably use buff or fawn. Here is a pic of one of the kits

We have a newer litter with him and our tort doe. We got a white'ish kit with gray points, 2 that look like their mom, and one that looks like the picture I posted.

re: Our black buck
We have not gotten any selfs with him either. We have our first litter with him (and one of our agouti does) and we have 4 agoutis and one tan/buff/fawn like the one I posted.
__________ Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:45 pm __________

Sorry, my kids distracted me and now that I come back and read what I posted, it doesn't make sense. I will fix that.<br /><br />__________ Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:56 pm __________<br /><br />So with the frosty ... what is it that makes it white? I know it is an agouti. From what I can tell, it is basically the same genetics as the chinchilla kit that we got, so what is it that made it white instead of chin? What knocked out the color on the banding?

 

[Dood]

The E- locus.

When it is double recessive (ee) it gives you tortoiseshell, pointed and fawn bunnies and modifies the coat by making a chinchillas coat lighter (frosty), a black rabbit have a rusty red hue (tortoiseshell) and an agouti rabbit come in shades of fawn like your "tan" kits and palomino buck.

 

[TerriG]

Thank you so much Dood! That totally makes sense and gave me a light bulb moment!

 

[Dood]

You are very welcome.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Think of it this way... a frosty is a Non-Extension Agouti or Red with the chin genes blocking production of all tan/red pigments.