"I dont like dealing with pet buyers"

[home*sweet*home]

I was talking to a breeder about a doe that I had out of her line and she asked if my daughter had a market for pets. She does, because she might offer us her culls cause she "doesnt like dealing with pet buys". I had a hard time understanding this, it was before I sold our first pets.

We had a litter of kits ready for Christmas. They were cute and we did not want to keep a black one and they were all black. They looked good. I put an ad on craigslist for $30. Which considering the mother of the doe is a grand champion out of a great line is fairly cheap. Had one person not want to pay $30 and wanted $20.

One was purchased by a first time rabbit owner. I had to do a lot of teaching and she is still texting me questions and pictures. Very cute and I am thankful he went to such a great home.

I can see why she would not want to. It is a lot less money and a lot more work, but it is neat to see the pictures and know they are loved.

One was purchase by an experienced rabbit owner and she put the bunny in a stocking and surprised her daughter. She cried! I think that makes it worth it.

Though I will still stick to show bunnies, when I have a cull, I will have no problem dealing with the pet buyers, but I do understand now how hard it is!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I believe that part of being a responsible breeder, or purveyor of anything, is education. Of course, with a living being it is even more important. By taking the time with these pet buyers, you are ensuring to the best of your ability that the animal will get the care it needs. By being willing to offer support even after the transaction is complete, you are proving that a responsible breeder is a valuable asset, not someone that needs to be shut down in the name of "animal rights". You are also gaining "goodwill" toward your breeding program, and will likely get sales referrals due to your time investment.

There is also the possibility that these first time "pet" buyers may become true fanciers, and decide to breed and/or show in the future, and we all know that the rabbit hobby needs growth to survive.

If you are going to pursue the pet market, it would likely save a lot of time in the future if you provide a basic care sheet, list of recommended reading, and links to sites with good information. RT comes to mind...

So keep up the good work, and congratulations on your sales!

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I believe that part of being a responsible breeder, or purveyor of anything, is education. Of course, with a living being it is even more important. By taking the time with these pet buyers, you are ensuring to the best of your ability that the animal will get the care it needs. By being willing to offer support even after the transaction is complete, you are proving that a responsible breeder is a valuable asset, not someone that needs to be shut down in the name of "animal rights". You are also gaining "goodwill" toward your breeding program, and will likely get sales referrals due to your time investment.

There is also the possibility that these first time "pet" buyers may become true fanciers, and decide to breed and/or show in the future, and we all know that the rabbit hobby needs growth to survive.

If you are going to pursue the pet market, it would likely save a lot of time in the future if you provide a basic care sheet, list of recommended reading, and links to sites with good information. RT comes to mind...

So keep up the good work, and congratulations on your sales!

THIS. I had very negative experiences with rabbits when I was younger and never wanted to show them...until some kind folk who were helping me get started with meat rabbits showed me how much fun it can be, and I since found out how awesome my Lops are. Growing the fancy may be as simple as helping a new pet parent discover how fun their new hobby is!

Plus everything said about being a good respectable breeder is totally true.

 

[HendricksHearth]

Just to give a contrasting point of view, the breeder might not have been complaining about the work involved, but rather the reality of the pet market. Just like with dogs, horses, and the like.. although some rabbits end up in just awesome homes, many of us have had mixed or downright negative experiences at some point over the years with the pet buyers. I would screen thoroughly, provide care sheets/education, etc. and some of the new owners were just incredible.. but in the end not all of them represented themselves honestly or turned out just plain irresponsible in the long run. I used to part with culls as pets quite often, but now I very rarely will sell to a pet home.

Unfortunately, there are the pet buyers that lose interest in the rabbit(s) when they are no longer a cute little youngster no matter what they tell you during the screening. There may be a slew of excuses including allergies, finances, moving to another place, etc.. but it isn't hard to read between the lines. Some of them would even rather "release them into the wild," than take the time to meet back up with the breeder to give them up, no matter how great they might have appeared during the screening process. People change and their situations change, but not always in the best interest of the pets in their care. Then there is the buyer that sounds like the perfect pet home and is actually a reseller/BYB type that keeps them in filth and just tries to pump babies out as quickly as possible. And the buyer that has all the education and tells the breeder everything they want to hear, but later on neglects the rabbit, dumps it at a shelter, or whatever. There may be an open door policy on returning unwanted rabbits.. but they don't even contact the breeder to use it.

Again, I'm not saying all pet homes are bad, but there are certainly bad experiences that can crop up when the breeder least expects it because ultimately you have to trust that the pet buyer will do what they say they are going to do for six to ten plus years or so. As we all know, a lot can happen during that time. A number of breeders I have spoken to (after bad pet home experiences) will no longer sell pets at all- they would prefer to donate culls to the raptor rehab center, use them for home meat use, etc. as they feel that is more humane than getting them back with sore hocks, super long nails, and in skin and bones condition after selling them initially as a pet to an awesome pet home (if they get them back at all).

Anyway, just wanted to provide another point of view as when breeders say they don't like dealing with pet buyers, this is the kind of thing they might be talking about. It is also good to think about as a responsible breeder because unfortunately it can and will happen.

Hope this makes sense,

Lauren

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Undoubtedly there are many flaky people out there, and the reality is a lot of bunnies end up mostly forgotten in a backyard hutch. Which is why I said "you are ensuring to the best of your ability that the animal will get the care it needs"... we can only try to ensure a good home through education- there are no guarantees. I'm sure the conditions of some respected breeder's rabbitries wouldn't live up to my personal standards of cleanliness and general husbandry.

That said, I still feel it is important to grow the hobby, and we can't do that if we wont sell our stock. I've only sold one buck so far, to some friends of mine who are raising for meat, and have another upcoming sale of a breeding trio, also for meat. But I worked for years in the pet industry- pet stores, kennels, and veterinary offices, so have done my share of selling animals, and feel that educating people on the pros and cons of the animal and the level of commitment needed for proper care are essential. If they decide not to purchase after all, I count that as a victory of sorts as well!

After numerous bad experiences, I can certainly understand not wanting to sell to pet homes, but hope that those that make that decision still mentor others that are new to the hobby, and help it grow in that way.

 

[akane]

I don't find sending rabbits to a pet buyer any more risky for their quality of life than sending them to another breeder. You still have no idea what will be done with that rabbit unless you fully inspect their rabbitry and ask them questions or hear from other people that they are a good breeder who takes care of their animals.

 

[ladysown]

I don't find sending rabbits to a pet buyer any more risky for their quality of life than sending them to another breeder.

precisely... whether you sell to a breeder or to a pet home the risks are the same. I've sold rabbits to breeders who tell me "she's just what I'm looking for" and find out that the rabbit was sold two weeks later to someone else who then sold him to a pet home. well...gee...I could sold that rabbit to a pet home as well...

You can look at the potentially bad experiences.. or you can look at the wonderful experiences. Depends on your point of view.

Is dealing with pet sales a challenge? YES.. because you can meet up with some doozies. But you can also meet up with some WONDERFUL people..and that to me makes it all worth it in the end.

I would also like to know what are the statistics for people who say that "most pet rabbits end up being neglected". It's an oft stated position for not selling pet bunnies, but I'm just wondering what causes folks to say this?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I would also like to know what are the statistics for people who say that "most pet rabbits end up being neglected". It's an oft stated position for not selling pet bunnies, but I'm just wondering what causes folks to say this?

Probably just the pervasive propaganda of the ARA's- look, they got me too! Because I can't give you even one first-hand example. Brainwashed? Moi???

It is true that some animals suffer neglect- I have seen that- look at the abuse some children suffer as well. People are fallible, and sometimes downright cruel, but I think most people are more good than bad.

I am very optimistic by nature though, and always try to see the good in things (and people), so I may have a too-rosy outlook!

 

[akane]

I do also wonder what neglected means. If they leave them in a breeder size wire bottom cage and only take time to feed, water, and change cage pans many of the pet crowd say that's neglect. That's also exactly what happens with breeder rabbits especially in a large rabbitry. Unless someone uses too small of cage, fails to feed and water, or doesn't look at the rabbit enough while doing basic care to pick up injury or illness they really are doing no worse than most breeders. I would prefer my animals didn't live that way and had some space with some basic toys (mine always get boxes and oatmeal containers) but I can't call it neglect. Just not ideal.

 

[HendricksHearth]

I can see I am the odd one out on this topic and that's no problem. Everyone must do what is best for them, but I personally have found breeders and those interested in raising rabbits that I've helped get started overall to be wonderful to deal with while pet buyers.. well, not so much. I guess some people have not had that experience, but to me it seems like there is more of an investment factor, true long-term interest, and the like with those that consider this a hobby or want to get started with rabbits as a project for their family. I don't know about the ARA stuff as these are just my own experiences.

On the flip side after a few years doing this, I have had multiple pet buyers want to return rabbits once they have grown up later on despite our discussion of the long-term commitment that taking one home as a pet entails. I have also had someone tell me they released their rabbits despite my open return policy, caresheets, information and education provided. It cost too much to take care of their rabbit. Allergies. Lost interest. They were moving. These are real things people have said, not just hearsay. I even had someone lie through their teeth to get pets that turned out to be under investigation by the state for poor husbandry and hoarding tons of different animals. Maybe it is my area, but my personal statistics favor the idea that screened pet buyers just do not have the long term results that breeding stock/show sales do. Again, your mileage may vary.. but I wonder if in a few years of selling culls as pets that some people that have no problems now may not feel the same way later on.

I am not saying that pet sales should never occur or anything like that, but I also think that responsible breeders should have other outlets for their culls than just pets because it will not always be a good fit. And sometimes it still will not work out with pet sales and while you will see your show stock sold at the shows later on, you will probably never see that pet rabbit again unless someone decides to return it, someone calls you from the animal shelter, etc. As much as we might like them to, the pet buyer will not always turn out to be that heart of gold individual that we thought we were selling to IMHO.

Best of luck,

Lauren

 

[akane]

The thing is all your examples I have seen done by breeders as well as pet buyers. I know breeders who have released rabbits because they no longer wanted them or to bother trying to sell them and couldn't put them down themselves. Lots of breeders buy something, let it grow up, decide it's not what they want, and send it on down the line. Sometimes because it's not suitable and needs culled and sometimes just because in the 4months it took to grow up they lost interest in that breed or color. I think the turnover rate from a breeder is higher than that from a pet buyer since it's often a show animal or livestock not pet. You have no idea where that rabbit goes after that or if the person selling it cares. It might then get sent off to a pet buyer with no info or a new breeder that hasn't done any research. Sometimes they get sent to the cull buyers who have them butchered.

That's just how it works no matter who you sell to. The only thing I've found that's different is breeders usually have done some research while many pet buyers haven't. I have to hand out more info to pet buyers but sometimes I hand out the same amount of info to new breeders. I've sent breeders off with several notebook pages of notes because they didn't research any of it before deciding they wanted a pair of my rabbits for meat, fun, or once a guy wanted a buck and every extra doe I had just to produce manure for his garden.

 

[curlysue]

I dont think most pets get neglected.i think thats animal rights groups crap just like the amount of rabbits in shelters.i read the amount of rabbits they claim are in shelters is more than the amount of dogs which is not true.I sell most of my rabbits at shows too 4H ers.yes sometimes they get resold.I hand out sheets with pet sales.actual pet sales were less than 10.

 

[HendricksHearth]

I don't mean any disrespect at all, but I honestly think my point is being missed at least in part. I am not saying that breeders everywhere are all perfect by any means. I also don't see anything wrong with responsible resale and I think 4H and all that is great. I am also sure there is the oddball lunatic breeder that has way too many rabbits, doesn't clean their cages, or whatever.. and I am not talking about them. I am not even going to address the ARA stuff because it has nothing to do with my post. I am just saying *that in my personal experience*, pet buyers are the ones that give me all the problems despite screening and education, not responsible breeders and exhibitors.

I've dealt with people on this forum myself and I never worry that the rabbits aren't being taken care of, while the pet people locally sign up for a commitment and time and time again they tire of it, flake out, move on, whatever, all at the rabbit's expense. I'm sure that part of it is that I live near Atlanta and big city mentalities are probably different than some of the more rural areas, but that isn't the whole difference.

While the breeders I have been around generally sell breeding and show stock to other breeders or culls for meat, the pet buyers just tend to drop the ball from what I've seen at one point or another, usually after a year or two. That might be in the form of barely taking care of their rabbit because they no longer have interest. Or it might be in the form of trying to dump the rabbit on whomever will take it just to get rid of it. The funny thing is that these same people flip their lid when I mention use for meat, even if they are contacting me because they don't want their rabbit and oh by the way it is sick now (and they don't want to treat it or take it to a vet, either). Furthermore, it is this same population that makes responsible breeders look bad as far as I can tell. They dump their rabbits at the shelter even when they can return them to their breeder, for example, but then breeders get blamed for shelter overpopulation.

For the record, I have no problems with meat use and it is a very practical and humane outlet for a breeder's culls as opposed to some of these other methods we've talked about regarding dumping unwanted rabbits. Another interesting thing is that the only people I know personally that have rabbits passing away of old age are responsible breeders that kept a favorite retiree or three, a few of which are active in our rabbit community online.

I guess its just a different philosophy, but nothing anyone can say here will convince me that the run of the mill flaky pet people are on par with responsible breeders. However, I respect all of your opinions and your right to have them and hopefully you can do the same for me.

Best of luck,

Lauren

 

[ottersatin]

I have sold a few pets and many 4H bunnies/rabbits.
I believe that each sale/case must have an identity of it's own.
One must use their own judgement as to whether or not to sell
a Rabbit/Bunnie to a particular person. Hopefully all the decisions
will be the right one. JMPO.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Hendrick'sHearth is probably correct that most breeders are a safer bet than some pet buyers, especially if they are buying it for a young child and have no real interest themselves. However, some of those pets probably end up having a far more stimulating life than my rabbits, who spend most of their time in cages.

I'd like to add a couple of thoughts on this subject that were on my mind all day yesterday. I can certainly understand that with so many bad experiences with pet sales, one might become so disheartened that they would choose not to take the risk at all. But if "responsible breeders" refuse to sell to pet homes, they are just shifting those buyers to possibly "irresponsible breeders". Bad for the rabbits, and bad for the hobby. If someone wants an animal, they are going to get their hands on one wherever they can find it... isn't it better for all involved if they get a well bred healthy animal and some basic care guidelines from someone that really cares about their stock?

As for a return policy, I am torn on this subject. By offering to take the animal back, aren't we contradicting the statement that this is a 6 to 10 year commitment to the animal? I suppose I would offer that option contingent on a cage being provided as well- but unless the animal was a breeding prospect, it would end up in FC, and I'd have a "free" cage.

I haven't tried selling to the pet market, since I am breeding for meat- and if I did try to do so, I am "geographically undesirable" since we live 50 miles from the city... any pet buyers would have to have a pretty strong desire for a bunny to travel 100 plus miles to buy one. My only really viable option for a large pet market would be to sell to pet or feed stores, in which case I would have absolutely no control over the transaction and no opportunity to educate the buyers, other than providing a care sheet and contact information. I don't find that idea appealing, but I wouldn't rule out the option, either, especially if it was a way to help support my family.

 

[ladysown]

Pet people can indeed drive the breeders out of the pet market. You need a thick skin or at least a willingness to roll with the punches. You need to spell out what your return policy means and what it entails. I've learned over the years that all you can do is do your best and there will always be people who will complain. BUT if you work hard it and cultivate your people, it does help in the long run. Not always, but more often than not.

I do find it annoying when people buy a rabbit and then three days later you find that exact same rabbit posted on Kijiji as free to a good home and it's like HUH? Or they are trying to get $100 for the $30 rabbit. It's like okay..you were all googoogaagaa about that bunny three days ago...what happened????

 

[Honorine]

I normally refuse to sell to pet people, I sell mostly at shows to other show people, and am very happy to help other breeders, particularly 4h kids. But I detest dealing with the pet crowd who humanize rabbits or any animals, annoys the heck out of me. I did have an opportunity to sell some pet rabbits this past summer from the fair, and I did so, but I don't give out peds, or contact information, the rabbits were 4 months old, no baby issues, talked about proper feeding etc. But that was it, I don't suggest spaying or nuetoring, as I think its rough on a prey animal. I would take rabbits back if someone wanted me to but their going straight to the auction. I don't do rescue, I don't rehome, while I have pet rabbits that we adore I see most of them them as livestock. I think in a way we're doing the rabbit community a disservice by catering to pet rabbit people, and its proving to be our downfall. In the Debe Bell case the judge refused to allow the rabbits to referred to as 'livestock', which is what they are. I'd beginning to feel that perhaps I should just eat all of my culls instead of sending them to pet shops,as they then end up in pet homes, with bunnie huggers who are then going to try and pass laws to elevate rabbits to the level of cats and dogs and destroy our rabbitrys and stop us from breeding and showing. Its all a vicious circle. Perhaps thats what we as breeders should do, stop petting out rabbits, as it appears we're only shooting ourselves in the foot.