I don't get it...

[Secuono]

OK, does the agouti have different names for different shades?
I have the more brown, gold and then dark. Or maybe those would be in silver/gold/black tipped steel section???


Pics in a second. But parents would be mixes of AmChin, SF & Cali.

 

[LauraNJ]

I don't know but I have 2 castors that are much darker in one litter than in the other. Their color isn't as clean looking but they are only 8 days old so I am hoping it cleans up and becomes more consistent.

 

[skysthelimit]

OK, does the agouti have different names for different shades?
I have the more brown, gold and then dark. Or maybe those would be in silver/gold/black tipped steel section???


Pics in a second. But parents would be mixes of AmChin, SF & Cali.

All colors fall into either black based, blue/dilute base, chocolate base and dilute chocolate based.
Agouti comes in black (what Rex calles castor) which is chestnut, blue dilute is opal, chocolate (amber in Rex) dilute chocolate (lynx).

Then there are the steels.<br /><br />__________ Sun May 05, 2013 4:43 pm __________<br /><br />

I don't know but I have 2 castors that are much darker in one litter than in the other. Their color isn't as clean looking but they are only 8 days old so I am hoping it cleans up and becomes more consistent.

Castors are notoriously inconsistent change frequently, which is why they aren't as popular in some circles. Mini Rex seems to have more balanced colors than Rex.

 

[Dood]

There are many colour modifiers that are unknown that alter the shades from light to dark.

Rufus modifiers are one of them that people know about and breed into their thriantras and NZR to get a dark rust red rather than orange, fawn or cream.

 

[Secuono]

Oh, here are the buns. Would like to know what they are called and what would make them tipped vs agouti.
Also, I found a website about a rare, heritage breed, I forget what it was called. But they stated that the breed should have these stomach marks, but very few people bother with it any more. Looks like Sally has these marks, last two pics, though, not a heritage breed. I'll try to find the website and what they are called.

They all stay 'two-toned', the lighter on top and sides is not sun bleaching.
This first one is black, is it still called that when it's so bright underneath?

Very gold.

Muggy brown.

Darkest, buck that was practicing breeding in the other thread.

Sally.

 

[skysthelimit]

The first one is not an agouti (unless it's some kind of steel). When you blow into agoutis, you see, or should see, obvious rings. Easy to see in Rex. http://mysite.verizon.net/res14yqyl/id13.html

The others look chestnut agouti, it comes in various types, from those that have a heavy top black cast, making them look almost black, to those with almost no cast, looking very red. All are accepted, but something in between is preferred. I am not going to go into wide band chestnut vs normal band.

 

[Secuono]

I read this somewhere, is it true?
" a good way to tell the difference between steel and chestnut is to look for eye, ear, and nose lacing and a white belly. the chestnut will have these things and a steel will not. "

 

[Miss M]

Lacing?

I get those bi-color chestnuts, too! They're so interesting! And they have the markings inside the legs, too, like you noted in the last pic.

 

[Dood]

First pic is black even though it looks smokey at the skin, it is just not a very good black and again it may have modifiers causing the lighter colour.

Second pic is chestnut agouti, may carry non extension which is lightening it to more of a fawn or very few rufus modifiers lightening the brown.

Third pic is chestnut agouti, just a slightly darker one

Fourth pic is steel chestnut agouti.

I read this somewhere, is it true?
" a good way to tell the difference between steel and chestnut is to look for eye, ear, and nose lacing and a white belly. the chestnut will have these things and a steel will not. "

Yes it is true. Steel chestnuts often look like black newborns as the belly can be very dark, they eventually develop gold ticking (AKA gold tipped steel) usually around the back of the neck or silver ticking if they are a steel chinchilla (AKA silver tipped steel)

I have an entire litter of super steel, gold tip steel, silver tip steel and chestnut and was going to get some pictures today.

 

[ladysown]

the gold looks amber to me.

 

[Dood]

the gold looks amber to me.

the light kit in the first picture could be a chocolate agouti (AKA amber in the rex's) but I would expect a more 'smokey' appearance.

Have you had any chocolate kits? Does this kit have a lighter brown or a red cast to its eye?

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

An agouti that carried non extension would look like any other agouti as its recessive. If there are two non extension genes paired up then you have red. Non of these kits are red. One second from last is wideband/steel. They have poorly defined rings but they are there. A red would be red to the skin, yet still have the cream belly, eye circles and cream inside ears. The kits here have varying amounts of rufous as well. The gold one like ladysown says may be chocolate based.

 

[Dood]

An agouti that carried non extension would look like any other agouti as its recessive

I disagree. The other 3 E-locus mutations (Es, E, ej )are co-dominiant or incompletly dominant and in my experience this is sometimes true with non-extension (e) and helps explain some of the vast variations in shades found in Agouti based rabbits.

Genetics is rarely black and white but many many many shades of grey

 

[skysthelimit]

If it is chocolate agouti, then the ear lacing will be brown. It's hard to tell from the picture.

__________ Mon May 06, 2013 10:16 am __________

An agouti that carried non extension would look like any other agouti as its recessive

I disagree. The other 3 E-locus mutations (Es, E, ej )are co-dominiant or incompletly dominant and in my experience this is sometimes true with non-extension (e) and helps explain some of the vast variations in shades found in Agouti based rabbits.

Genetics is rarely black and white but many many many shades of grey

None of my herd carries ee, and I still have variations in black agouti shades.

I would say that has more to do with band width. http://tonisconeys.webs.com/castorguide.htm

 

[Miss M]

What's lacing?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

What's lacing?

The light colored fur outlining the eyes, ears, nostrils, and jawline.

 

[Secuono]

So, Sally would also be chestnut agouti, right?
I'll have to go look to check eye color.
Haven't had any chocolates with this mix, though, the SF buck is supposedly a chocolate carrier. These are the colors I always get from this mix. When I bred the AmChin to a Californian, I got Jasna, the very light chin color doe. Though, I'm starting to wonder if that really is her color...lol.
I don't get color genetics at all. Wish pedigrees came with each rabbit's code, that would be neat.

Thanks!<br /><br />__________ Mon May 06, 2013 12:07 pm __________<br /><br />Ok, here is Jasna. I'm seeing the white lacing and noticing the mom, pure Chin, doesn't have that. So wouldn't that make Jasna not a light chin but a....?? I'll get a blown coat pic to post.

 

[skysthelimit]

Chin is Agouti, and has the same variation in shading as the castors doe, there are very dark chins with narrow band widths and light ones with wider band.

All my chins have narrow intermediate bands, and they are very dark, the judges commented on the doe at the past show. The bands do affect how much lacing is around the eyes and ears.

 

[Secuono]

Hm, I only get the light chin color when the AmChin is bred to a Californian. What makes it show only in that cross and not with the SF?

Jasna has brown eyes and brown eye lid skin. All the kits also have brown eyes and brown eye lid skin, I'm not seeing red.

 

[skysthelimit]

Hm, I only get the light chin color when the AmChin is bred to a Californian. What makes it show only in that cross and not with the SF?

the chin gene is recessive to the full color gene. SF have the full color gene,C, though I know a few people are getting REW in their SF, c. Chin, chld, would need two chin genes, or a REW gene, c, or a himi gene-Cal-ch, in order to be a visible chin.

So the chin gene is dominant over the the himi Cal gene, but not over the full color gene in SF.

I am putting known genes on my pedigrees, and the ped I got with my new Angora also has known genotype on it as well.