How to minimize kit loss

[Links56]

Hey everyone, so I had another doe that was ready to kindle (proven doe 1.5 years old got her from a friend.)and I lost all six of her kits. I put the box in the cage and she made a nest out of straw in it. I checked on her last night and she was in the box same as she has been since she made the nest, then this morning I go out and the whole cage is filled with fur, 3 fell from the cage 3 were crammed under the feeder the doe just walking on them with her feet. I warmed them up and 2 of them came to life so I put them in a box and put a heat pad under them few hours later they died.

I guess my questions are

Why doesn't the doe pull any fur before it's too late?
Why doesn't she give birth in the nest?
Why doesn't she take care of her kits?
What else can I do?

Also unrelated to this instance, how common are false pregnancies? Is there a statistic percentage?

Thanks

 

[Ramjet]

How many times has she had kits on the wire instead of in the nest ?! Sounds to me like someone might have given you their problems .... if its happened multiple times.


Only time I've had false pregnancies is after the summer heat dies down and bucks are still heat sterile .... It can take ~72 days for them to become productive again after the temps have dropped to an acceptable level. I had one doe this year with three consecutive false pregnancies between September & November , finally delivering a small litter on December 16th.
She'd generally pull fur and begin nesting behavior around day 17-18.

 

[Zass]

As they say around here:
Rabbits have a learning curve.


Don't worry, we've pretty much all been through situations like yours at some point.
Thankfully, it's not really the norm, and many of us have very low mortality rates.

You said you had kits fall out of the cage? It's common practice to install baby-saver wire on maternity cages. Hardware cloth placed 6 inches up from the floor, all round the cage should keep those newborns in.

My pens came with baby saver already installed, everywhere except the doors.
So, imagine my surprise this summer when I found one of my precious little harlequin kits, caught in the door wire, waving it's paws in the air helplessly.
I was lucky to have found it in time to save it. The bottoms of my doors now have hardware cloth too.

What kind of nestbox are you using, and is it the right size for the rabbit? Are the sides high enough to keep babies in?
Newborns can crawl a surprising distance.
It should be just large enough for her to turn around in, and too heavy or securely attached for her to move easily.

Is there a predator in the area that could have been threatening to her? Dogs and roosters have been known to stress some rabbits, along with any number of wild predators. Even rats can cause problems.

A rabbit's instinct is to hide their babies and stay away from them unless feeding, which they only need to do once or twice a day, so, once those little guys are outside of a nestbox there really isn't much momma rabbit can do.

then this morning I go out and the whole cage is filled with fur

The pulled hair tells me that she did have an interest in saving them. She might do better next time.

If you ever need to use a heating pad for newborns, make sure there is room for the kits to be able to move away from the heat source, otherwise, they can overheat and die.
I'm not saying that was what happened to your babies, only that it's something to keep in mind if you are ever in a similar situation.

 

[Links56]

I'll have to add some wire to my cages so they can't fall out. They are wood nesting boxes. They are inside the barn in a closed off room with a heater no predators. I think I have inherited a lot of other people's troubled rabbits, but unless I can keep a litter alive, I'll never get a better breeding stock. I'll remember that about the heating pad maybe that's why I lost the 2 it's hard telling. What temp should they be?

Also I was wondering about palpitating a doe, it's supposed to be done on day 14? I can't seem to ever tell but if the double pregnancy is a myth what would happen if you put the doe in with the buck on day 14? Then put a nest box in and if she doesn't kindle the first time then you would only have to wait 14 more days for the second chance. I have not done this and I'm sure there's reasons not to, I'm just trying to figure out how to reduce non pregnant time until I have a couple litters. I have a lot of money invested and nothing to show really. I really enjoy doing it but you have to draw the line somewhere and it can be frustrating at times. Is there any other way to tell if they are pregnant for sure? Thanks

 

[skysthelimit]

Also I was wondering about palpitating a doe, it's supposed to be done on day 14? I can't seem to ever tell but if the double pregnancy is a myth what would happen if you put the doe in with the buck on day 14? Then put a nest box in and if she doesn't kindle the first time then you would only have to wait 14 more days for the second chance.

Palpating can happen as early as 9 days, but best 10-14. That is exactly what I do. If I feel nothing at day 14, I just rebreed, I keep both dates, on the chance my palpation is wrong.
Sadly there is no other real way to be for sure, and even palpation depends on the skill of the person and where the doe is carrying the litter, plus body. I am usually right. Once she's ready to kindle, you can just place your hand on the belly and feel the kits move. If she's so full up you can't feel around, either she's pregnant or seriously bloating, put the box in anyway. I have a doe I forgot when I bred her, because I had to try everyday them leave with the buck. But I sure enough felt those kits. She stopped eating all her food two days ago. Some go off feed, or eat less. I tossed in hay then put a box in and she made her nest yesterday.

 

[wamplercathy]

I have a proven doe that has had several successful litters. Her first litter with me she lost 4 due to my own stupidity. Her second litter with me she had 3 on the wire and 3 in the box. This was after spending the whole day before, sitting in her box. :evil: It was as if she preferred to eat.

The point is sometimes mistakes happen, but keep an eye on her. Too many mistakes lead to a cooking pot here. For me 3 solid mistakes is the cap. But only you can make that judgement. I would check to see what her track record was before coming to you.

Hope it gets better,
Cathy

 

[Links56]

Thanks everyone it really helps! I will adjust my routine and try again. Once I quit making mistakes then I will focus on phasing out the trouble makers.

 

[wamplercathy]

Thanks everyone it really helps! I will adjust my routine and try again. Once I quit making mistakes then I will focus on phasing out the trouble makers.

That's a good plan. Time is the key.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Found this on google images and thought it was perfect for rabbit raisers. :lol: :lol:

 

[a7736100]

Keep in mind that a nest box and wire cage is really unnatural. Rabbits would rather have a nice underground tunnel leading to a secure nest in constant temperature. Just because we give them a box doesn't mean they prefer it. They are just making the best with what we give them. Anyway I prefer to use solid bottom indoor type cages for them to give birth. Often I let them give birth indoors. Much easier to keep an eye on them. Several times I was able to be there at the time of birth because the cage was right there instead of outside.

 

[wamplercathy]

Keep in mind that a nest box and wire cage is really unnatural. Rabbits would rather have a nice underground tunnel leading to a secure nest in constant temperature. Just because we give them a box doesn't mean they prefer it. They are just making the best with what we give them. Anyway I prefer to use solid bottom indoor type cages for them to give birth. Often I let them give birth indoors. Much easier to keep an eye on them. Several times I was able to be there at the time of birth because the cage was right there instead of outside.

My does don't like being out of their cages. The few times I had to move them it was very stressful for them. I had to move their cages outside to do some work on the rabbitry. The first time they went :runaround: and I had to cover their cages with a sheet. That helped so the second and last time I had the sheet to begin with. But the rabbits I got are breaded to be breeders. Not cuddle bunnies, not active life bunnies, to be meat producers.

So moving a doe indoors to deliver would cause more problems then it would solve. I do plan to bring in the nest box every night and returning in the morning for feedings for the first week.

It really depends on the rabbits you have. No one way is best. Time. Get to know your rabbits and their habits. That will lead to success. Plus re-read information that is useful and track everything the good, the bad, and the ugly. A daily or weekly dairy is very useful, or at least I have found it to be. For example I track weights and how much they are feed, temp and weather conditions, who is breed to whom and what that resulted.

Hope this helps,
Cathy

 

[AprilW]

If this is her first litter with you but she was bred before, maybe there is a difference in the style of nestbox or bedding material that threw her off? Since she pulled fur, she was half right and I'd try again. The longer you breed, the more selective you'll become. My Harlequins are almost always perfect first time moms. I rarely have to worry about them. Partly breed I think but also because I don't let poor mothers hang around for too many chances.