Help with genotype

[Maplegrove Rabbitry]

These 2 chestnuts are from the same litter. Had a black new zealand doe mother and a red new zealand buck sire. What information about their genotype can we figure out from their phenotype?

 

[tambayo]

The one on your hand looks like an agouti/castor so A_ the one on your arm looks light like ee and red/fawn. So doe should be Ee .

 

[judymac]

Mom is non-agouti, and can only supply an 'a'. Dad is agouti and has passed agouti onto both of the kits, so he gave an 'A', which makes the kits 'Aa'.

The chestnut kit on the left has black, as chestnut is just another name for black agouti. The kit on the right looks like a red/fawn, but with quite a bit of 'smut', dark tipping. It's hard to tell if the tips are chocolate or black, but generally chocolate doesn't show up much, so I'm guessing black as well, 'B_'.

They are both full-color, so 'C_', don't really look dilute so 'D_'. Dad can only give 'e' non-extension as a red. The chestnut/castor would be 'Ee', but the red/fawn would be 'ee', which means that mom must be 'aaB_C_D_Ee'. Dad would be 'A_B_C_D_ee'. That's my guess.

 

[MsTemeraire]

What is the undercolour on the 'red' one like? It could potentially be chocolate agouti if it's not red.

 

[RABBITGIRLFORTHEWIN]

I have been wanting to learn all about coloring but it's all so confusing. How did you guys learn? What resources would you recommend?

 

[judymac]

What is the undercolour on the 'red' one like? It could potentially be chocolate agouti if it's not red.

Yes, good point, it could be a wide band chocolate agouti. Agouti rabbits have three distinct bands on the fiber. The outer tip color (which is either black or chocolate, or their dilute colors blue or lilac), the middle band which is some yellowish tint (red/orange/fawn/cream) and the base color which is back to one of the dark shades, although a bit lighter (dark slate instead of black, dove gray instead of chocolate). Wide band doubles the width of the middle yellowish band, making the rabbit look much more fawn colored.

Reds typically have a white undercolor, while chocolate agoutis have a beige shade (in Angoras they call it 'dove gray'). You can see the chocolate shade here near the skin: This bunny doesn't have the red 'rufus' factor, so the yellowish part isn't as red as yours, and he doesn't have wide band, so the yellowish band is narrower..

 

[MsTemeraire]

Reds typically have a white undercolor, while chocolate agoutis have a beige shade (in Angoras they call it 'dove gray').

On short-haired (non-Angora) rabbits, chocolate agouti has a slate blue base colour next to the skin.

 

[Maplegrove Rabbitry]

What is the undercolour on the 'red' one like? It could potentially be chocolate agouti if it's not red.

They are new zealand rabbits which all have BB shouldn't be chocolate. The doe has Dd for dilute but we aren't sure if the red buck is Dd or DD so I was thinking the dilute might be the difference

 

[reh]

I have been wanting to learn all about coloring but it's all so confusing. How did you guys learn? What resources would you recommend?

You could use http://rabbitcolors.info/ to lookup images with gene codes, but first read the help page to learn how to use the database!

 

[judymac]

What is the undercolour on the 'red' one like? It could potentially be chocolate agouti if it's not red.

This is a high-rufus (out of a red) Satin Angora chocolate agouti. She was born a lovely dark chocolate with the white agouti inner ears, but as the coat grew out the red shade is all you really notice.

I looked up to see what the official definition of chocolate agouti was in a non-angora rabbit. It isn't an accepted color in New Zealands, but it is in Rex, where the color is called Amber. The standard calls for a reddish brown surface tipped with chocolate, golden orange intermediate band, and dove gray undercolor.

I've tried posting the photo both as in-text and as a file to be added, but neither method seems to be working. Last week only the 'attach file' worked, now neither does, any clue on how to fix this?

 

[MsTemeraire]

I looked up to see what the official definition of chocolate agouti was in a non-angora rabbit. It isn't an accepted color in New Zealands, but it is in Rex, where the color is called Amber. The standard calls for a reddish brown surface tipped with chocolate, golden orange intermediate band, and dove gray undercolor.

We have chocolate agouti recognised in quite a few breeds in the UK, where it's called Cinnamon: Angora (English), Netherland Dwarf, Polish (US Brit), most Lop breeds, Satin, Rex and Mini Rex. Description of the base colour varies in the different standards: slate, light blue, dove grey, lilac.

 

[judymac]

Description of the base colour varies in the different standards: slate, light blue, dove grey, lilac.

Fascinating, thanks for the update.

 

[judymac]

Trying again, photos are not showing up on the other threads either. One person got a .jpg through, although when you clicked on it, there was nothing to see. I sure hope Rabbit Talk can get .png pictures to post again, and that the enlarge feature works again. Sure is missed. Here's another try at the high rufus chocolate agouti photo, this time in .jpg:

 

[Sagebrush]

Seems to be working for me. The kit on the hand appears to be a "wildtype" Agouti and the other one appears to be a chocolate Agouti. The last picture of this thread is a beautiful Red. Does it happen to have Satin JudyMac?

 

[judymac]

The last picture of this thread is a beautiful Red. Does it happen to have Satin JudyMac

It's actually a high rufus Satin Angora chocolate agouti. This is her at two weeks, just looking like a plain chocolate agouti:

Once the high rufus orange bands started to grow in, she ended up looking like a red, didn't she? When you look at the fiber closely, you can still see the chocolate tips and the light chocolate base, though. The satin sheen does make it hard to see any details, it just plain shines!

 

[Sagebrush]

That it does! She is beautiful for sure.

 

[judymac]

What is the undercolour on the 'red' one like?

Did we determine what the undercolor on the reddish kit was?

 

[Maplegrove Rabbitry]

Did we determine what the undercolor on the reddish kit was?

It's a new zealand, so it's black.

 

[Maplegrove Rabbitry]

I think I figured it out, the redder one has the wideband (ww) gene. The red portion of the fur is much bigger than the darker one

 

[judymac]

I think I figured it out, the redder one has the wideband (ww) gene. The red portion of the fur is much bigger than the darker one

Sounds good.