Help with 12 kits

[Secuono]

So my Am Chin had 9 kits, 1 or 2 are small. My Holland Lop had 6 babies, 3 died, she won't care for them and has no milk yet, may never come in. Moved the 3 kits to the Chin's 9 to stay warm. Fed them from her.

My other SF doe is due in a few days, if she has few kits, I'll add the 3.

What can I hand feed the kits that aren't being fed enough?
I don't want to buy all the stuff in the mix below, as it would be more costly than it's worth and would never need the stuff after. Found the mix on a thread here.
1/2 cup evaporated milk
1/2 cup water
1 egg yolk
1 Tablespoon corn syrup

 

[Southbound_SF]

I've heard of using goat's milk or Esbilac puppy milk replacer, but those would be even more expensive unless you happen to have a goat. Anyone know if sheep's milk would work? I looked at your site to check if you kept goats, and figured sheep are pretty close.

Possible easier solution: are you sure the Am Chin can't feed all 12? That's not an outrageous litter size.

 

[Secuono]

Again, she can't feed the 9 she has, obviously she can't feed 3 more. She also only had 5 kits last time, 4 lived to be nursed. She dumps her food, so I have to feed her small amounts of food, another reason she can't feed so many.<br /><br />__________ Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:44 pm __________<br /><br />Googled it, seems like sheep milk is better than goat milk.

Also, read that you should pee the kits, but I do not believe the mom does that. If a mom with 8-9 kits only feeds for 3-4min two times a day, she has no time to be licking every single kits bottom until they pee. Anyone have facts on this?

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

I don't know about having to "pee" the kits... I have been peed on much too often from kits just by doing nothing.. Just picking them up makes them pee lol Not only that you can have peeing contests, they sure can shoot it far!!

 

[MaggieJ]

Opinion seems divided on the need to help hand-fed kits urinate. Many of us now believe that as long as there are several in the nest that they stimulate each other through their movements. One or two kits may need a little help.

 

[Secuono]

Ah ok.
Got a kitten kit, bottle, brush and 5 nipples. One is more narrow and longer, going to use that one, since bunny nips are so tiny! Should I use a hot needle and make one hole, an X on the tip or??

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I heat a paper clip over a flame until red hot and pierce the nipples with that. Holding it with pliers keeps you from getting burned.

 

[Secuono]

Well, the air in the tube didn't go all the way down and all I had was a very thin xmas wire. So I cut the tube down to the air bubble. Got about a tablespoon of sheep milk, but the rabbits wanted nothing to do with it.

Took out one of the HL's kits and rolled the HL onto her back. Seems like she has milk today!

I don't know if I should take out the 3 kits and w/e runts in the Am Chin litter and put them in a nest in the house. Then bring the nest out after work and before bed. Maybe just leaving them there and just picking out the small ones instead would be best.
Chin hopped into her nest while I was testing w/one kit. She growls half the time they are feeding..:/


Also, to those who think the mom moves fur and what not. Lies. I watched the nest with 11 kits in there while I was feeding one. They all wiggle through the walls of fur if they are cold[when the wind really picked up.] Or they wiggle up out and to the sides of the fur if it's too warm[when the wind stopped. Had them sitting where the sun was shining.]<br /><br />__________ Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:23 pm __________<br /><br />Yep, 4 are not getting fed much what so ever. They are too small and weak to make it to the top of the feeding pile. I don't get how such a large litter can survive w/o help. But w/e. HL is feeding the 4 smallest 2x a day.

 

[akane]

That looks like a horrid recipe. Cows milk should not be used for other baby animals. It is not the right nutrition and hard to digest. Majority of animals you attempt to feed on any form of cow milk will die. Meat products including egg should not be used for herbivores. That's a fine cat or dog recipe if you want to substitute something besides the cow milk but not for rabbits.

You can use kitten and puppy formula but the sheep, goat, or equine formulas mixed to double concentration are a better substitute. Some add a little corn syrup or honey to increase energy but once they are eating well this is unnecessary for those formulas. The main thing is you need it really concentrated because rabbit milk is very high in fats and protein since they are only fed once or twice a day. You may need to feed 3 or 4 times since our substitutes are not as good or they don't get enough per feeding but try to limit it or their digestive tract will not work properly. It works better to increase the concentration than add other things. At double concentration goat kid formula nearly matches cottontail milk. I had the breakdown of cottontail milk somewhere on my other hard drive.

I had no luck with kitten bottles or any nipples sold in stores. They just would not grab it and suck no matter what. An eye dropper worked better but you have to start out just one drop at a time until they get the idea and then squeeze at just the right pace. Then a 1 cc syringe which a vet should give you or you can get from pharmacies for diabetics (cut the needle off if they come with them attached) works once they figure out sucking. If you plan on attempting to save litters in the future visit the squirrel store online and get some proper sized nipples. I have some now that screw on to a standard syringe.

 

[ladysown]

one person on the meats rabbit forum had excellent success at getting kits to suck a milk laden wash cloth. That might be an option rather than the nursing nipple.

 

[Secuono]

Alright, but I gave up on hand feeding them. Using the HL doe instead.

__________ Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:40 pm __________

She's not feeding 6 of them. Ugh, I hate this rabbit. Getting rid of her once the kits are old enough.<br /><br />__________ Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:48 pm __________<br /><br />Seems to be leveling out with the HL feeding 4 of them once a day. Got another gray kit! It's again, the largest. Wondering if the gray has something to do with vigor or size in general? Rest look to be black.
My SF had her kits, looks to be around 8 of them. Not sure if she will be able to take on 2-3 more. But they are similar in size, so they may have a chance to thrive with her litter.

 

[AnnClaire]

CnB, you might try the SF doe with split litters ... give her the smallest ones in the morning, then the largest ones in the evening ... that way she might be able to handle all the kits that need fostering along with her own litter.

 

[Secuono]

SF had 7 kits, all are fed and same size. Added the 3 HL kits, since they have barely grown with the Am Chin. Am Chin's kits are in 2 sizes, but idc, they'll be fine.
I'll check the SF to see if she is feeding them all or not after work. If she is, great, if not...I'm not going to keep trying.