Help me understand enough to be dangerous

[mattdv]

Good morning,
I am planning on getting out to pick up a buck and a couple does today but got into reading abut Charlie's as I fell asleep last night. Now as I am trying to get down my first cup of coffee I am reading to much about EnEns, enens, SiSis, and more genetic short forms which ill need to finish a pot of coffee and have some time before I get into it.
The long and short of it in bullet points:
First time rabbits(aside from the schizophrenic rabbit from my childhood)
Breeding for personal meat production.
Will be looking at NZW or NZWxCali does
Was looking at a NZ black buck
All non related rabbits


Would the Cali's be considered a broken? If I went with the cross and a NZ solid white or black would I be getting Charlie's? Thanks

Matt

 

[GypsyTinker]

Cali is actually a "C locus" gene. Meaning that it is in a whole different location than broken (En) or steel (Es) genes.

It's referred to as Himalayan or "Himi" for short and the short hand is "ch". It is somewhat recessive as C (full color) is dominant and cchd (chinchilla) and c (red eye white) are also on that locus.

It basically blocks all of the color from the fur except on the extremities and that is referred to as "points". It also blocks color in the eye and causes a red eyed rabbit.

I know all this thanks to Dood and Disney's generous knowledge and a bit of reading. Here is a link that helped me get going:
http://www.threelittleladiesrabbitry.com/colorgenes.php

To get charlies you will have to breed two brokens. Here is a link about brokens and charlies:
http://www.thenaturetrail.com/rabbit-ge ... lie-solid/

 

[Dood]

:yeahthat:

However, the NZW and Cali (himilayan coloured) could be hiding the broken gene IF there are broken relatives in their history, but that is highly unlikely. People who breed broken want to be able to see the pattern so they try not to breed them to NZW and Cali.

 

[skysthelimit]

Lol, that's the true, though I do have a broken REW Mini Rex. Kind of a shame...

 

[MamaMandy]

The Cali can't really hide the broken gene. A broken himi will have white feet, so you'll know if the Cali is broken or not. Good luck and welcome to your adventure in rabbits!

 

[mattdv]

Thanks for the replies and those links were great.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Hi Kastles!

:welcome: to RT!

Most people consider the Cal/NZs to be best suited for the freezer. The reason people cross the two breeds is to get improved growout in the first generation. That "hybrid vigor" is lost in the second generation.

If you cross a black and a white NZ, you are going to get lots of unexpected colors because the white fur is like a slipcover on a couch- it is just hiding the true color of the rabbit/couch.

It is usually best to get related stock so you have a limited gene pool to work with, especially at first. Sometimes experienced breeders will bring in an outside line to improve on a characteristic that their stock is lacking, but it brings a whole host of other characteristics with it.

If possible, I would highly recommend getting your rabbits from one source. Every herd has different disease resistance. Even though the animals are healthy themselves, they may be carrying pathogens that another herd has had no exposure to which may cause illness in the non-resistant animals.

For that reason, it is of utmost importance to quarantine animals from different sources well away from one another for 4-6 weeks. Moving to a new home is stressful, and stress weakens the immune system, so latent illnesses should manifest during that quarantine period.

When you visit the rabbitry(s) listen for sneezing, and be watchful for white mucous in the corners of the eyes or the nose- and look at the inner surface of the front legs. If the fur is matted or crusty looking it is because the rabbit has been wiping its nose and has gotten mucous on the fur. If you see any of the above, RUN AWAY. The rabbits are exhibiting signs of Pastuerella or other respiratory disease, and you do not want to start with that! :x

Bring a spray bottle of 10 parts water 1 part bleach for your shoes and hands if you plan on visiting another rabbitry afterwards.

It is a good idea to ask the breeder what their protocols are for treating illness. Pasteurella cannot be cured, but antibiotics will suppress the symptoms. I personally would not buy medicated stock.

:congratulations: on starting your meat rabbit project!

Looking forward to seeing pictures of your new rabbits and set-up! :camera:

 

[mattdv]

Thanks MSD,
How related are we talking about. I figured to get the buck and does from separate places to avoid inbreeding. What level of inbreeding is ok with rabbits?

 

[Dood]

My American Chinchilla buck is full and half brother to two of my does and I am now doing father-daughter breedings with no ill affects. My rabbits are healthy, grow out well and my fertility is excellent.

The first symptoms of excessive inbreeding is lower fertility and compromised immune systems.

In fact the unrelated doe is the one I have problem with litter size and fertility but she is from show stock and was chubby when I got her as a senior doe.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

You want them to share some common ancestors. It is not uncommon to see a buck or doe as parent, grandparent, and great grandparent on a pedigree.

Heavy linebreeding and inbreeding is done to set type in all rabbits, and especially in laboratory rabbits so the outcomes of experimental studies have the least amount of variables possible. There was a study done where brother to sister breedings were done for over twenty generations with no deformities.

Indeed, all breeds of animals were developed using heavy inbreeding and linebreeding.

I started with two does and two bucks. One of the does was bred to yet another buck, but due to us both being newbies, she kindled on the wire and lost the litter.

I foolishly decided to breed both does to the same buck so I could compare litter outcomes between the two bucks, but the other buck keeled over dead before I could use him.

All of my rabbits go back to that one buck, and I have bred mother to son, father to daughter, and brother to sister. My fourth generation kits are in nestboxes now, and so far all of my rabbits still have two ears and eyes, four legs, and a fluffy little tail.

 

[skysthelimit]

My fertility and size is increasing with inbreeding. I can now report that I have Rex at 4 lb at 12 weeks, which is a big accomplishment for me.