harlequin genetics

[shazza]

kind of a terrible thread title but i dont know what else to call it lol.

a couple days ago i had a litter out of my REW standard rex doe. the father is a blue magpie harlequin rabbit that i was 100% convinced was sterile after several failed breedings, so he was sent to the stew pot. needless to say this litter was a bit of a surprise.

she kindled 8: three REW, two dark kits (look like black but could be dark blue,) and three broken kits that all look black or dark blue. neither of the dark kits are harlequined like i was hoping.

this is a fairly important litter to me as the intention behind this pairing was magpie harlequin rexes. this was just a little fun project for me for fur production so it doesn't matter that they're mutts, but harlequins in general are rare here and this may be my only chance at this colour for a while since i ate the dad.

i want to keep a son to breed back to the mother, so my question is - even if none of the kits show harlequin, will they be able to produce it if bred back to the dam?

 

[PSFAngoras]

Do you have a pedigree for the mother? I ask because knowing what is in her background could be helpful. The problem with Rew is that it's a white sheet thrown over a colored rabbit. You don't know what she is. Harlequin is the next to last gene in the line up of recession in the E series and to get magpie you have to ad chin to that too, so... It won't be easy. If the Mom is a tort or fawn under all the white you may get harli. If not, your odds of seeing it are pretty low.

If you really want that harli or magpie and all you have is the kits to work with, your best bet is to breed two of the colored siblings together for a generation and see what that gives you. The odds are higher than breeding back to Mom not knowing what she is, but you still may not see anything unless both kits carry harli and it lines up perfectly. (25% chance if they do carry.)

__________ Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:03 pm __________

ETA: wish you lived closer, I have a Rex/Flemish buck that looks black but is actually a steel carrying harlequin. Also carries chin. I've gotten magpies and harlies from him with two different does. He's looking for a new home currently, and he's too sweet to put in the freezer.

 

[SableSteel]

Most likely they will not throw it if bred to the dam. If you could find an ermine rex, that would be really good, a red or chinchilla would be okay too (with red you'd want to keep harlequins, with chinchilla you'd want to keep harlequinized chinchillas, those can be bred together or to the original one to make magpies). Breed it back to the mother, and youll probably just get the same things, only then you wont have a guarantee that they carry harlequin

 

[shazza]

i don't have a pedigree for the mom (i forgot to get it when i bought her, like an idiot, but i'm going back to the breeder soon so i will ask if she still has it,) but i know one of her parents was a broken black. there's likely not much chin in her lineage as the breeder really only had otters, blacks, rew and castor at the time. rexes are hard to find here too so i'm not sure if i could even find a chinchilla

i do however have a japanese harlequin rex doe...would i get magpies out of her somehow if bred to one of the kits? i plan on keeping a broken one and possibly a solid (provided any of those are bucks,) because i could at least try for tricolours with the japanese doe. but ultimately i want magpies too

 

[alforddm]

You'd be better off breeding two of the litter mates together. Given that none of the litter is harlequin or fawn or red, the doe is probably EE at extension however, since the sire was a magpie, all the kits should be either Eej or possibly Ee. Breeding two of them should give you a chance at your magpie. You may have to do several different pairings as your changes will be 25% of any of the kits (some of these will also be REW). Plus, if the sire was eje you may have to pair several different kits to find one that is Eej vs Ee (unless they are harlequinized but you can't always tell). Because the doe is REW and the sire was a magpie carrying REW. All the dark kits should carry chin. So your good on that end.

 

[Dood]

The dark kits must be chinchilla (or possibly sable agouti)

Breeding the coloured siblings is your best bet

Breeding to the harli might produce magpie if she carries a recessive on her C-locus. If not then breeding these kits to the magpies litter should

Once they fur up a bit you might see harli markings on their bellies (kit on right) to help with selction

 

[shazza]

well, i just had a silver fox doe kindle (like, twenty minutes ago,) from the same sire and several of her kits are magpies, so i think i might have my way in there. they wouldn't have the rex gene but that just makes the project more fun i think. i may still try crossing the two dark kits (fingers crossed they aren't both the same sex,) from the rex doe and seeing what happens. because of course i really needed to keep so many kits for experiments :roll:

thank you guys for your help! this has helped me understand rabbit genetics a bit better now. now if i can only remember what colours make what other colours when crossed i'm more familiar with cat colour genetics and rabbits are sooooo different haha.