Good stock matters

[TheChad]

I know Grumpy has made this point before on many occasions, but I wanted to relay my observations concerning my stock.

I started out with two NZ does and one NZ buck. The litters usually averaged 4 to 8. After losing one of the does and the buck to a predator, I added two new NZ does and a pure breed California buck. The first thing I noticed was that the buck was very good at getting the job done and multiple times when the doe went to visit.

One of the new does died. So I had two left. One from the original stock and a new one. The new one gave birth to 12 or 13. Only 11 were alive. The old stock doe gave birth this morning to 11 with 9 being alive. This is a huge improvement.

I did notice one from the new doe that is very thin and may not make it. We will see. I have been giving the mother extra food and boss. I am going to add some oats as well.

So at this point, the new stock is showing drastic improvement from the original. I hope others will use this post to share their experiences to encourage others. At times I was extremely disappointed with my numbers. Hearing from others who have gone through this always helps!

 

[AmberRae]

Do you attribute the larger litter to the buck getting the job done multiple times? I also have a Californian buck. When he breeds my girls once I separate them back into their own pens. I have had multiple litters of anywhere from 5-8 kits. Do you think if I let him breed them multiple times I would get larger litters? If so should i just let him do it a few times in the same visit or take them back to his cage a few times in one day? I have read where people do both. I am wondering if you or anyone else has experience with it increasing litter size? Now that my does are proven good moms and have a couple litters under their belts I wouldn't mind them having larger litters.
Also, I do not know if it is just coincidence but my Cali buck is a very capable breeder and gets the job done on the most unwilling does. A couple weeks ago I was selling somebody a breeding trio from my Cali litters. The male was just under 3 months old. I put him in a box with the 2 Cali does just to carry them out front and he before I could even stop it he bred one of them. The girls were 6 months old so old enough to bred but I did not think for a second a 11 week old buck could make that happen. I have had Giant Chinchilla bucks take a year old to get any good at breeding.

 

[Nymphadora]

Do you attribute the larger litter to the buck getting the job done multiple times?

I am speaking from research only, but usually litter size is dependent on genetics, not number of times bred. So the increase in litter size that Chad saw probably occurred because the new buck was more fertile than the one he lost. If your buck has a history of smaller litters (keep in mind, it could be the doe’s fault, too… but less likely if all litters sired by the same buck are small) then having him breed several times isn’t a guarantee for bigger litters. Then again, some people swear by breeding at least 3 times.

Hopefully someone with experience can confirm or deny my research-based claims.

 

[Dood]

I had the opposite experience with a pedigreed Cali buck but he was from show stock and not meat pen or commercial operation

My proven AmChin does had smaller litters and 50% of the kits suffered nest box eye, something I'd never experienced in the 2 years since I started raising meat rabbits

His offspring also didn't gain as well after weaning as my mutts nor my purebred AmChin and I ended up culling all his progeny and him

 

[AmberRae]

Thanks Nymphadora,
I tend to think the extra breedings wouldn't make a difference. Would you consider a litter of 7 small? I really never have but I hear of people constantly getting litters of 12. I am very happy with my buck either way. Even though he averages 7 kits they are always very healthy and I rarely loose a kit. He is also very handsome and sweet
I am going to experiment though and breed an extra time when I breed next. <br /><br /> -- Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:17 pm -- <br /><br /> Dood,
When you got nest box eye did the kits get better from it or did you have to cull? I have not experienced it yet.

 

[TheChad]

Do you attribute the larger litter to the buck getting the job done multiple times? I also have a Californian buck. When he breeds my girls once I separate them back into their own pens. I have had multiple litters of anywhere from 5-8 kits. Do you think if I let him breed them multiple times I would get larger litters? If so should i just let him do it a few times in the same visit or take them back to his cage a few times in one day? I have read where people do both. I am wondering if you or anyone else has experience with it increasing litter size? Now that my does are proven good moms and have a couple litters under their belts I wouldn't mind them having larger litters.
Also, I do not know if it is just coincidence but my Cali buck is a very capable breeder and gets the job done on the most unwilling does. A couple weeks ago I was selling somebody a breeding trio from my Cali litters. The male was just under 3 months old. I put him in a box with the 2 Cali does just to carry them out front and he before I could even stop it he bred one of them. The girls were 6 months old so old enough to bred but I did not think for a second a 11 week old buck could make that happen. I have had Giant Chinchilla bucks take a year old to get any good at breeding.

I agree with the other poster that it was most likely genetics. I do let him go for three or four fall offs. He is quick about it though. My first buck was notorious for taking his time. I don't know of any negatives for leaving them in as long as you are monitoring them. I would let it all happen in the same visit. I usually try the doe back with the buck after a week. So far, they let me know that isn't going to happen and I take them out right away. It is usually a sign they are pregnant. <br /><br /> -- Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:23 am -- <br /><br />

Thanks Nymphadora,
I tend to think the extra breedings wouldn't make a difference. Would you consider a litter of 7 small? I really never have but I hear of people constantly getting litters of 12. I am very happy with my buck either way. Even though he averages 7 kits they are always very healthy and I rarely loose a kit. He is also very handsome and sweet
I am going to experiment though and breed an extra time when I breed next.

-- Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:17 pm --

Dood,
When you got nest box eye did the kits get better from it or did you have to cull? I have not experienced it yet.

Mine that had 11 may lose one or two that appear to not be getting fed. I am watching to see if this clears up. So larger numbers may not pay off long term. We will see.

 

[Nymphadora]

Would you consider a litter of 7 small?

I'd say that sounds like a lovely average!

 

[FourRingCircus]

Would you consider a litter of 7 small?

I'd say that sounds like a lovely average!

That's where I like to be - less stress on the doe (the larger litters can drain them - I had one get really thin after having her 11, but this was before I knew I could supplement with things like BOSS), not too crowded of a cage, I can process all in one session (especially if DH helps), etc.

 

[alforddm]

I consider 7 a small litter if it is for a proven doe. I want at least 8 prefer 10 for a proven doe. Does generally have larger 2nd litters, with the 3rd litter being the largest and then litter size declines somewhat (I can find the references for this if your want them).

 

[Rainey]

We just had our first litter of the year on Monday. This was the doe's 7th litter. She had 8 and all litters have been between 7 and 9. Her mother was the same--8 every time (but she was a biter while the daughter is good tempered so a keeper) The first doe we bred this year, sister to this one, didn't kindle. Would have been her 7th litter also, but she had had from 6 to 13. When we had just started raising rabbits for meat and started following RT I was a bit envious of those who had such large litters but have since decided that 8 is good and I prefer consistency in litter size and plenty of milk to feed them all.

 

[Jaulen]

We just starated breeding.

First doe, her first litter was 10 with one runt who died....we then lost 2 more ( I think heart attacks from my son and friends getting into the cages to play with the babies). Was worried, they live in hanging cages in a 3 sided lean to we hang blankets on for the 4th wall....we hit 30 below zero....but they did fine.

Second doe, her first litter, she had 11 (mom later died when they were 9 days old). That litter had a runt and a micro runtling. All 11 still.alive, 6 weeks old. I hand fed them.

First doe again, had her second litter last night, 11 babies. No runts in this litter.

Is it normal to have such big litters just starting off? We got NZ Blues. Should i be supplementing? I just feed pellets and hay with an occasional piece of fruit or veg for the adults. Started breeding them at 8 months old. Took a few tries for the buck to figure or what was going on.

 

[Dood]

I just treated the nest box eye, it cleared up quick enough but got me wondering about their over all immune systems as something i didn't want to introduce to my herds gene pool, especially since there were less productive in other areas as well

 

[TheChad]

I wanted to give an update concerning the new stock and my progress. I re-bred the does about two weeks after they had their large litters. Normally, I like to give them more time, but with vacation and summer fast approaching I went ahead to see how it went and get a good supply of rabbits for the freezer. This morning the newest doe gave birth to 11, one was dead at birth. The others looked good. One is a runt, but we will see how it does. The other doe is due today. They have kept their weight up pretty good. I will be monitoring them till I leave for the mountains in two weeks. This will be the last litter until the fall. Too hot in Alabama to breed through the summer for me. <br /><br /> -- Wed May 24, 2017 12:53 pm -- <br /><br /> My other doe added nine more last night. I have 40 rabbits in five cages. Wow that is a lot. Well a lot for me.

 

[AmberRae]

That is a lot! Lots of food for your family.
What age do you process and what size grow out pen do you use?

 

[TheChad]

That is a lot! Lots of food for your family.
What age do you process and what size grow out pen do you use?

They are going through the food for sure. I process them when they get to five pounds. It is usually around the ten week mark. It depends though on the time of year. Summer usually takes a little longer. I finally found someone to do all the processing for me. I am hoping to get a few de-boned. Maybe some sausage or jerk our of them.

The two grow out cages are a little less than four feet wide by two deep. They are a few weeks away and see to still have plenty room.