Giant Flemish Colour questions

MegMTL · May 24, 2016

Hello, I am new to Giant Flemish Rabbits. I acquired two from a local man who breeds them, NZW, and some mini breeds. I didn't do enough research on the colours before going and picked out two of the friendliest of two separate litters. I ended up choosing a male who is "black" well looks steel only the ticking (if that is what it is called) is more brown rather than grey. The other is a fawn female and looks perfect, however in the same litter there were broken white and fawn coloured ones?

What does this mean? The place was very well set up and the people seemed very knowledgeable, however they breed for meat not for show. Can they still be pure GF just unrecognized colours? I have some pics but I should probably get some better ones of the fur up close.

I have also done a lot of research since acquiring them and discovered a lot about how it is imperative to breed only specific colours together. I've seen a lot of mention where not following the guidelines can be "detrimental" however no where does anyone state what the repercussions are... Is it just related to the colour itself and the complications from removing certain colour genes down the road? or are there real dangers such as causing physical mutations and health risks? I'd love some insight!

I've read a lot of colour charts online and calculators and have completed college level biology so I do understand basic genealogy. I am also curious if some colours are both dominant do you get co-dominant where the colours mesh together? Ex Black + White = grey instead of 50 white and 50 black? (a very basic example) TIA

alforddm · May 24, 2016

The buck sounds like he may be a gold tipped steel, which is not a recognized variety. Broken is not an accepted color in flemish either. Unfortunately, it's rather common in some areas to call any large rabbit a "Flemish" whether or not it's really a Flemish. Kinda like any white rabbit is referred to as a New Zealand White. I'm not saying your rabbit are not Flemish, but you should be aware of the practice and decide for yourself if your rabbits meet the Standard or not.

The gold tipped steel could be the result of breeding two different varieties. However, the broken colors in the fawn litter would have required an outcross to another breed. Crossing varieties is frowned upon in flemish circles, even more so than in other breeds. With Flemish, if it is an unrecognized color, your not even supposed to refer to it as Flemish. From the

NO OTHER COLORS (VARIETIES) SHOULD BE REFERRED TO AS FLEMISH GIANTS UNLESS THE BREEDER HAS OBTAINED A C.O.D.

From http://www.nffgrb.net/index.htm

This is why crossing varieties is generally frowned upon, because it can produce unrecognized colors (which aren't supposed to be called Flemish), not because it can cause physical mutations or other problems. I have mixed feelings about this myself, as I tend to feel that if two rabbits are pedigreed then their offspring should be considered part of that breed no matter what color they are. However, I don't raise Flemish.

Black + white generally does not equal gray. Gray is a sandy rabbit with the chinchilla gene. White caused by another allele of the same gene as chinchilla. There are several genes at play and none of them are considered co-dominant. You might try reading through some of the resources listed here rabbit-colours-and-genetics-f31.html If you have questions we'd be happy to answer them. I'd rather not go into it here as It would take paragraphs to explain. Quit a bit more than what I've already written. :lol:

Anyway, I hope that helps a bit, I tend to wander a bit when I write so I hope I'm understandable.

MegMTL · May 24, 2016

Thank you so much!!! I will try and take some pics tonight and maybe you could give me some insight as to their type and how close to the standard they actually are. I'm not going to show them anyway as we only live close to one ARBA? accredited show. But I did want to try breeding, but that looks like I will have to wait and try to find some better stock. I'd just rather not try and sell any babies as something they are not, even if they are only to be pets anyway. Plus I'd prefer to keep within the standards as much as possible.

I am curious however, let's say my fawn is gorgeous can I show her without a pedigree? Let's say she does well... can she be a FG? even though she came from an oddly coloured litter? I also read that the colours can come out many generations later, so its entirely possible the man I got them from is breeding FG to FG honestly but somewhere along the lines one of them was crossbred?

alforddm · May 24, 2016

MegMTL":ch0vpy64 said:
I am curious however, let's say my fawn is gorgeous can I show her without a pedigree? Let's say she does well... can she be a FG? even though she came from an oddly coloured litter? I also read that the colours can come out many generations later, so its entirely possible the man I got them from is breeding FG to FG honestly but somewhere along the lines one of them was crossbred?

I'm not 100% on this. I believe in most shows they can be shown without a pedigree. However, they do have to be pedigreed to get champion status or to be registered with the ARBA.

Broken is hard to hide. It's possible, if he hasn't been to rabbit shows or researched colors, that he believes they are 100% Flemish. Or it maybe one of those things where any large rabbit is a "Flemish". It doesn't necessary mean that they are deliberating being dishonest. I try to believe the best of people.

Please post photos when you can. Like I said I don't breed Flemish so I won't be much help on type, however, I'm sure there are others here who can help in this area.