Genetics Question

[Teddy2511]

Okay so here's a quick genetics question...

A broken black buck was bred to a solid black tort doe. The resulting litter had a black, a seal, and a broken sable point.
Next, the dam (solid black tort) was bred to her son, the broken sable point. Resulting litter was three REWs.

Now tell me, please, how is it possible for a tort doe to produce both a seal and a REW? :?

 

[Birds Buns N Bees]

The seal couldn't really have been a true seal. My guess is that he/she was a dark sable.

 

[Dood]

:yeahthat:
Torts come in a wide range of shades because of unknown darkening and lightening modifiers - some torts can be nearly black and some can look like fawns :shock: if your tort doe (or black buck) have these darkening modifiers then their kits will be darker and a Siamese sable may look like a seal.

The black buck carries shaded and the tort doe carries REW

their sable point son got his shaded from dad and the REW from mom

They can produce torts, sables and REW - statistically only 25% should have been REW (and 25% tort, 50% shaded) and it's just bad luck all 3 were white

 

[Teddy2511]

The seal doe is the one that I own, but I know the breeder and have been watching the results of these litters.

Since there is no way for the seal to be a true seal, you are saying that she is actually a dark Siamese sable? If that's true then what is her genotype?

And is there any chance she could be a slightly faded/off-color black instead?

How can I prove her genetics by breeding? She is bred to a broken blue tort buck at present.


Thank you for the help!

 

[Dood]

If you want proof she is not a seal then cross her with a himilayan or REW.

A seal is just a Siamese sable with two shaded genes (except in the UK, Europe, Austrsila and New Zealand where self chinchillas and sable point rabbits (AKA sallanders) with the chinchilla gene are also called seals and seal points :shrug: )

 

[akane]

aaB*chlcD*Ee with darkening modifiers that have no known designation. Crossing to a tort not carrying a recessive gene on C locus will give you torts, blacks, and a slight possibility of other colors like chocolate and dilute.

 

[Teddy2511]

Right, that would make sense to prove that she isn't a seal. But how, if I can, can I prove that she is a Siamese sable and not a black? There is a picture of her on my website if that helps any.

Sorry, my brain is a little slow today.

 

[Dood]

Breed her to a genetically self REW or self Himilayan - if she is black she will have 50 % or more black kits.

 

[akane]

The rew or himi would be the fastest way to check for seal or sable. It might take a few litters to really tell which 2 genes she has but it is possible she will throw every color in the first breeding. You can also breed to a sable and you will get seal, sable, and either himi or rew depending what gene both sables carry besides chl. It wouldn't be as guaranteed to show results quickly because of the broader range of colors you could get. If you don't want to hunt down another shaded rabbit you can also just breed her to her offspring from the black tort cross and recessive genes should start appearing. You just won't know which offspring got what so that's the cheapest but slowest way to figure it out because it will take the most litters unless you get lucky. If you don't mind some inbreeding you can cross the siblings for slightly faster results.

 

[bunnychild]

Someone on here explained it to me last year like this:
Imagine the REW gene like a white sheet, it can cover up all kinds of colors which you will find if you breed them.
I had imagined it as a blank sheet of paper but nope. I just hope that my REW will give me some REW eventually.

 

[akane]

REW x REW results in 100% REW offspring. It is the most recessive gene so there is no other gene there to take over and show other colors. You need something more dominant on the C locus to make anything but a rew.

 

[Dood]

Someone on here explained it to me last year like this:
Imagine the REW gene like a white sheet, it can cover up all kinds of colors which you will find if you breed them.
I had imagined it as a blank sheet of paper but nope. I just hope that my REW will give me some REW eventually.

this is true of any colour EXCEPT for the other C-locus colours which are chinchilla, shaded or himilayan.

 

[Teddy2511]

So... What is a genetically self REW?

Do you mean a REW that is has a full extension gene? ie: aaB_ccD_E_
Genetically a self without the C_.


And why would those particular C-locus colors be different?

 

[Dood]

The self gene is on the A-locus with the agouti gene, a genetically self REW or Himi has nothing to do with full-extension (e-locus). I recommend you cross to self so you don't produce agouti based Himilayans that are not showable or REW that can produce non-showable agouti based colours

Because REW and himilayan can genetically be any colour under the white blanket if you cross your "seal" to an agouti based REW or Himilayan you will get shaded agouti which look like smutty chinchillas - which is fine but not a showable colour.

If you cross your seal to a self based REW (- aa __ cc____ ) or himi (- aa __ ch_ __ __) you will only get Siamese sables - aa __ cchl c __ __ or aa __ cchl ch __ __

If your "seal" is a siameses sable and you breed self based REW and Himayans you will get more Siamese sable and some REW or himilayans who are also self and who won't add agouti to anyone's bloodline if you sell them. <br /><br /> __________ Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:24 am __________ <br /><br />

Someone on here explained it to me last year like this:
Imagine the REW gene like a white sheet, it can cover up all kinds of colors which you will find if you breed them.
I had imagined it as a blank sheet of paper but nope. I just hope that my REW will give me some REW eventually.

this is true of any colour EXCEPT for the other C-locus colours which are chinchilla, shaded or himilayan.

And why would those particular C-locus colors be different?

Because they are on the same colour locus and are dominant to REW.