Frustration.........I haz it!

[fuzzy9]

I've had my issues with these darn rabbits over the last year, everyone does, but you get over it, and move on. I've been pretty lucky with kits.....till now. Guess it's just my turn. Lost Sammy to mastitis, and I think because we weren't aware that it was mastitis, it spread to Hazel when I was checking kits. We lost Sammy AND Hazel to mastitis. So I've had two litters of young kits to try and save. What's frustrating, is I have saved 3 or 4 litters previous to these, one that was only 2 weeks old, and they thrived leaps and bounds better than these two.

They are 4 weeks old, and so tiny, they just don't seem to grow. They have only very minimal interest in pellets, the one litter is just now finally eating oatmeal, but the other litter only picks at it, mush or dry. They do drink from a dish, which is good. They have hay 24/7, but they prefer to lay on it, and pee all over it, in spite of the fact that they have a nice box with shavings and hay to sleep in. I've been giving them dandelion and raspberry leaves, which they love, but I can't give to much, or it gives them poopy bottoms.

Sammy's litter started with 8, and Hazel's litter 9. Hazel lost 4 initially, and fostered 1 to Sammy, due to lack of milk, till it came in a few days later. I'm now down to only 3 in Hazel's litter, and 3 in Sammy's litter. I've been losing them one by one, with crusty eyes, poopy bottoms, and lack of interest to eat. Dave wants me to just cull the rest, they aren't growing, they are barely eating, and it's difficult to keep losing them daily. I didn't have any losses in these pens this morning though.

Oh, btw........yes, they are all in quarantine.

I don't know if I should keep going with them, or just give up. I find it hard to give up, especially since I've always had luck saving litters at a young age, but these are just so different. Nothing seems to be on my side with these ones.

So, keep trying, and hope they pull through, or cull? The only thing I hate, is watching an animal suffer needlessly.

As if that wasn't bad enough, on top of that, I have a doe who is almost ready to leave my other quarantine area, and go into the rabbitry. Well, she isn't gonna make it..........sneezville, with white crusty nose this morning. Just not a good day here! :shock: If ever there was a day to crawl back in bed, and pull the covers up way over my head.........it's today! :lol:

 

[ladysown]

not that it helps much, but I find with wee littles that giving them grass keeps them going better than hay. (even parsley and carrot greens in the winter go a long way).

I understand your frustration...

If a litter is failing to thrive there is something in their systems that they can't fight against. and yes, then I'd cull the works of them.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Have you tried giving them goat milk replacer? You could add it to their water, and coat their other food with it. Probiotics may help as well. Parsley is a good idea to stimulate their appetites. Maybe a heat source would help as well. As for them using the hay as a potty place, why not put their box in that area and feed them hay where the box was?

I hope your luck turns- how sad to lose your does! ((Hugs!))

 

[MaggieJ]

That sure is a run of bad luck.

Dandelions are mildly laxative and not the best thing for them just now, even though they are very nutritious. Raspberry leaves should actually help firm up their poops. So will the leaves of blackberry, strawberry, plantain and shepherd's purse. Ladysown recommends prickly lettuce for gut problems.

I'd try the grass and prickly lettuce and the plants I mentioned and see if it helps. Give them the grass hay and oatmeal as well, but hold the pellets for the time being. If there is no improvement in a couple of days, I would say cull them. It's heartbreaking to watch them waste away.

 

[fuzzy9]

Thank you for the responses, and the hugs and heartfelt words. I don't have any goatmilk replacer, but I can get some tomorrow if things don't pick up. I have stopped with the dandelions, thank you for pointing that tip out Maggie, I thought it was good for poopy butts. I've doubled up on the raspberry leaves, and added some grass. All the oatmeal in both pens was gone tonight, so they seem to be eating it good now. I'd like to leave more out, but they just potty in it, and waste it. Crossing fingers tomorrow brings all clear poopers. :lol:

I hope they make it, there's one little one that climbs up the door when it sees me, knowing I probably have greens with me. It's the first to eat, after it nearly crawls on me, and then sits quiet while I pet it while it happily crunches a raspberry leaf. Even in all the sadness, a glimmer of adorable!

Haven't had any lethargic crusty eye babies anymore yet, so it's the one silver lining.

I have to say, I love living next to a woods where the raspberry leaves are plentiful, but man, there sure are alot of ticks in this woods! Had a little deer tick crawling on my arm!

 

[MaggieJ]

Hoping the bunnies are doing better this morning, Geri.
:clover: :clover: :clover:

 

[AnnClaire]

If you can intercept a healthy ceocotrope from a healthy doe you might try giving them that. Or even the droppings from a healthy doe. It sounds like they haven't developed a full spectrum of healthy gut bacteria and they are still fighting off the mastitis infection.

Also, instead of grass, try pulling weeds ... the weed farmers call "cheat grass" is one mine chomp down to the roots, including the seeds.

Also, do the babies have access to a mineral block? When heavily supplementing with fresh weeds and grasses, I find that all my rabbits hit the mineral block really heavily in the heat. Of course, in the last litter, I had one that didn't want mineral block, but did go for kosher/canning salt

 

[fuzzy9]

Sorry AnnClaire..........I just saw this now.

It's over. I had to cull 3 more over the weekend, they just were not eating well, and the drinking was starting to decrease. Yesterday I came to terms with the fact the remaining three needed to be culled also, I can't stand to watch them continue to decline, and not see any improvement. I tried my best, just short of nursing them with an eye dropper. They were 5 weeks old, and smaller than my 2 1/2 week olds out in the rabbitry, who are already eating pellets.

I went to open the cage door, and the one little friendly one was there waiting for me. It put it's head down, wanting to be pet, and then tucked it's nose in my palm while I pet it. I couldn't do it. I'm usually pretty strong when it comes to the rabbits, but not this time. Hubby did it for me when he came home. I guess it's just one of those things that happens when you are raising animals, it's not all sunshine and giggles 100% of the time.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Aww, Fuzzy, my heart bleeds for you! How sad. What a wonderful Hubby you have to step in and do that for you. He gets ((Hugs)) too!

I hope things will improve for you and your herd now.

 

[fuzzy9]

Thank you Annette! He is a pretty great guy...........most of the time! :lol:

I'm really wondering something. What's odd is that this is the first time we had chosen to breed our does early, and this is the outcome. We typically wait till they are past that 7 month range. I was told by a local breeder here, that breeding young will effect the milk production, and I'm now second guessing our choice to breed Hazel and Sammy early. Hazel's milk needed alot of help to get in, and it didn't come in till a few days after the kits were born. Sammy, well, she started this whole mastitis cycle. I'm really wondering if this is because of the breeding early? We've always been very successful with first time does till this point. Any logic behind this, or do we just chalk it up to a freak thing? I know we are going back to breeding after that 7 month age for sure. I'm way to leery now. And I know there are alot of folks out there who breed early, successfully. But is it really just a hit or miss thing?

One silver lining out of all of this............I now know something else to look for with doe/kit interaction. Especially if we're not turning these does over on a daily, or even weekly basis.

 

[MaggieJ]

I'm so sorry that it ended that way, Geri. (((HUGS)))

I don't know if early breeding of the does could affect milk production. I've never heard it mentioned by those who do breed their does early, but it is certainly something to consider.

 

[currituckbun]

My heart goes out to you Fuzzy. I had my first experience with having to cull young ones from enteritis early this Spring. I did manage to save two but they never grew well and put on weight so slowly it was not worth it.
Come to think of it I bred their mother young and she ended up with mastitis. I think the Pen- G treatment messed up her still nursing kits gut flora and then resulted in the enteritis.
The good news is the doe,Lucky, is super mom now and is raising her second litter of 11 plus 2 fosters and doing a superb job. I had thought there for a bit we would loose her.
Here is hoping your next doe to kindle does great.
PS. That is Lucky as my avatar . Super nest builder too.

 

[AnnClaire]

Awww Fuzzy {{{hugs}}} I am so sorry!

As for your question about breeding early and milk production, I bred my satin doe at 5 months (after she didn't take at 4 months) as she was at 6# and she delivered 11 and raised all 11 ... they had milk bellies every morning and grew quite well.

Actually, this doe seems to have quite rich milk compared to the EA :lol:

 

[fuzzy9]

Thank you for the hugs Maggie, Currituckbun, and AnnClaire, as well as for sharing the info! I guess for some it works, and some it doesn't, we're just gonna stick with waiting till they are a bit older. I have Hazel's sister here, that thankfully we didn't breed, she wasn't ready emotionally. She's been letting me know she's more than ready for the last couple weeks though, she's been spraying or something in her pen. Ewwwww!!! :shock: She's just coming 8 months old now, and we'll be breeding her this weekend to our new black buck. Can't wait to see the outcome of that breeding!!