First time breeder here!

[CopperCopyCat]

Hi, I am not breeding rabbits yet but I am hoping to get my first breeding pair by the end of the year and then start breeding by spring 2018
I was wondering if anyone had any advice for first starting out? I have heard some scary things like does that ear the ears off their kits or eat them completely! And it got me wondering if there is anything else I should know before I start out? Just things I should be prepared for if they happen or what's normal and should be expected?
The breed I'll be working with are mini Plush lops so not much info is available online about breeding them specifically since there are only two breeders in the United States atm and I'm hoping to be the third..I also plan to join ARBA by the end of next month so I will have access to more info through them as well!
So in the meantime if anyone could share their experiences or wisdom that would be great! and thank you very much!!~

 

[SableSteel]

I would really suggest starting with a recognized breed as your first breed. It's easier to find stock, you can show them and get judges opinions on them, and theres more information available about them. If you really want rex fur and a small lop breed, you might want to try velveteen lops... Even then, the quality and judging are inconsistent compared to recognized breeds (because the standard keeps changing), and you have to cull harder to even keep up certain traits. If you do plan on working with an unrecognized breed, find a standard (hopefully the people you are buying from are breeding to a standard - if they don't have a standard for their mini plush lops DONT BUY FROM THEM. They're most likely just breeding pets then) and stick with it . Set goals - say, this year, I want to improve my ears, etc, next year maybe improve my shoulders, etc. Joining the ARBA won't help you that much with unrecognized breeds - you don't get much out of showing them, you can't register them, and they can't direct you to a national club to help find more breeders. Spend the money on good stock to start out with - if you stay in rabbits, you'll end up buying the expensive show stock eventually, and you might as well save yourself the time, money and feed bills spent on improving mediocre lines. Mother rabbits can overclean, and eat the ears (and toes, and tails) off babies, but it isn't super common, at least with good mothers (which are, again, easier to find in common breeds because you have more to choose from). Some will also eat entire dead babies, to clean up the nest. Before you start breeding, have a plan for what to do with the culls. Pet buyers, reptile breeders, meat buyers, whatever you want to do with them - find people before you start breeding.
I'd suggest starting with a trio (one buck, two does) to start off with too. Breed both does at the same time. That way, if one were to die or abandon her kits, you can foster them onto the other doe. Hand raising babies rarely works out.

Go to a show BEFORE you get rabbits. Get a chance to see all the different breeds, talk to breeders, make some connections, and decide if this is really what you want to do. Try to find a mentor, to help you pick out stock, ask advice, direct you towards respectable breeders. That's probably the best way to learn about rabbits.

But really... I've been showing rabbits for years, and the breeders that come in wanting to work solely on unrecognized or extremely rare breeds often face disappointment, get bored with no competition, or are stuck finding stock, and seem more likely than others to give up on raising rabbits entirely. If you really want to work on mini plush lops, I'd try to find another breed that you like, too, maybe just get one or two of them, so that you actually have something to bring to shows, and you aren't left just spectating. While some clubs may let you show mini plush lops (if you bring your standard for the judges to use), they don't have to, and since often the judge is just reading the standard right then and there, you might not get too much helpful advice. Also, unrecognized breeds can't win points, legs or compete for best in show, which, imo, takes some of the fun out of it. (I have raised velveteen lops and champagne dwarfs, so I've shown my share of unrecognized rabbits, btw)

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask me.

 

[SixGun]

Welcome to Rabbit Talk and welcome to the world of rabbits.

A lot of good advice from Sable Steel.

I second going to a show and seeing what is there. Honestly, pictures don't always do rabbits justice. You will see something and fall in love. I went to buy some Harlequin rabbits about 15 years ago. I really thought I wanted them more than anything, and although I did indeed enjoy them, I saw an English Angora in that breeder's barn and fell in love. Now, 15 years later I live across the country and specialize in French Angora and it has changed my whole life. I would not have considered this breed before... and now I'm making a career change so I can spend more time with these crazy creatures.

With only two other breeders in the US, you're going to get lonely. And there's a reason there are only 2 breeders. I'd find out exactly why that is. Rarity is for a reason. They may be near impossible to keep. That's going to be discouraging and take all the fun out.

As far as things to prepare for.... well, you're going to have does that never get pregnant, no matter how many times you breed them. You will have bucks and does that are completely uninterested in breeding. You will have does that eat nothing, and you can never keep weight on, or does that eat too much and you can't keep them thin enough to be useful. You will have rabbits that die for no known rabbits, usually your favorites. You will have does that lose entire litters, or litters that slowly die one or two at a time for weeks. You will die a bit with them while you try to figure out why. You will have rabbits hurt themselves in inane ways, ripping off ears and toenails and hunks of fur, disqualifying themselves from the show table. Usually your hopeful show stoppers.

But... you will also have the most amazing time meeting some amazing animals and creating some life long friendships with other rabbit people. You will have amazing beautiful bunnies grow up and live their lives with you. It's worth it in every way!

 

[AmberRae]

Great advice from Sable Steel and Six Gun. I think you should get a couple does and a buck plush mini lop. Every breed has to start somewhere so maybe you can be a pioneer in this breed. With that being said I think you should have a second breed too that you work with. All the things Sable said about a rare breed is ture and could discourage you in the long run. I think mini rex would be a great compliment to plush mini lop. .....
Welcome to rabbits and be aware they are very addicting!

 

[CopperCopyCat]

To be honest, I am starting with Plush lops not only because they are my favorite breed and the little girl I have already have(she isn't purebred) stole my heart away! But because they are easy to handle and keep and good mellow temperaments are part of the breed standard! They are also hypoallergenic and only shed twice a year! I would be selling them as mainly pets instead of breeding for show since I want to make them more common and accessible to first time bunny owners since they are bred specifically for homes and family settings (and the breeders I will be buying from do have a plush lop breed standard! So that's good!) I do have a few people already lining up to buy kits from me when I get my first litter from rabbit groups on facebook or the community who were interested in the new breed after hearing me talk about it or after seeing my female(even though she isn't purebred)
Although I also figured while breeding them I could work on things like optimal health as well as trying to get the drop rate with the ears closer to 100% if that's even possible?
stock would be difficult though I admit as they are only available in KY right now. And I think they are so rare is because they are expensive...250-400$ a rabbit depending on the quality of the colors and rabbit and the fact they are fairly new...I think the breed was only finished and finalized around 2007-2012 and all of the original stock of the rabbits were bought up. The rarity is another reason I wanted to breed them though. I want to make them more available for people as I have had such a great experience with my first female and I have become super passionate about them! I want them to be more common too as so far I haven't been able to find a single mini plush lop owner of a purebred rabbit other than the breeders I've spoken to at Ellies Rabbitry or Hidden Valley Rabbitry.
and I will have to look into mini rex breeding as well! I would enjoy being able to enter my bunnies in shows
Although what about Netherland dwarfs and other types of lops? which would you say is the easiest to handle for first time breeders? I was thinking maybe mini lops since I just love their fluffiness and the size but idk how easy they are haha and I am in a kind of dead zone when it comes to rabbits...most of the buns here are bred for meat, we dont get many being bred for pets or show so I have to search quite a bit to find purebred buns within 1-2 hours drive from me

 

[SableSteel]

American standards don't have temperament as part of the standard. Breeds can be bred for certain temperaments (I do Himalayans, the friendliest breed, and since they're big with youth, people select for friendly rabbits, and Britannia petites, the meanest breeds, which are bred to be 'alert' on the show table) but there won't be any points on it. Rex furred rabbits are not hypoallergenic. Most rabbit allergies are to saliva and stuff, and not the fur, but even in the rare case it is the fur, rex fur often isn't any better than normal fur. Don't just market your rabbits as hypoallergic. If you find somebody that wants rabbits but is definitely allergic to their fur, send them fur samples from the rabbit for sale, and see if they react to it. Look for health issues, related to rex fur, too; I'd try to breed away from astrex balding and especially sore hocks.

Mini lops are the easiest to breed of the small lops, but they are larger... usually more around 6-6 1/2 lbs. Holland lops and netherland dwarfs are smaller and easier to handle, but have more health issues.

Honestly, just keeping a small number of rabbits and breeding for pet traits only won't do anything to help the breed. Just look at lionheads, still trying to dig themselves out of their pet reputation. What a breed needs to develop is a bunch of dedicated breeders all breeding towards the same standard for the same purpose. Type is harder to fix than temperament.

 

[Winterwolf]

Hello, CopperCopyCat! First of all, welcome to RabbitTalk!

I think that's great that you want to get involved in developing plush mini lops. They're such adorable rabbits and are known for having such sweet temperaments. Also, there's certainly nothing wrong with breeding for the pet market. Especially if this breed focuses so much on temperament and personality. Although, since it's a still-developing breed, you'd be helping it's development a lot by making sure to breed to the standard even if they're just being sold as pets.

As far as advice in a second breed to raise, I'm afraid I can't help much in that area because I've never raised a small breed before. (Although I'm adding mini lops to my rabbitry at the end of this summer! I love mini lops so much!) I have heard that Holland Lops and lionheads are supposed to have great temperaments.

Good luck on your new rabbit adventure! Rabbits are a lot of hard work and aggravation, but they make it so worth it. But be warned: they are also SO addicting!

 

[Easy Ears]

Welcome! You have just dived into a world that will change your life! I'm sure you'll have many happy moments ahead of you! There is nothing like the cuteness or joy of seeing your own baby bunnies for the first time!

I found your post especially intriguing because I recently just found out about this new breed! I look forward to hearing more about it and possibly see pictures of your bunnies as well down the road? :mrgreen:

The others before me have already given you some great advice, but I will say that the best advice I can give you is to just have fun! And, don't let yourself get pressured into buying purebred stock or breeding to a standard. I made that mistake when I first started out and for a time it got me really stressed out and I didn't enjoy being criticized and told that my rabbits were tainted and unfit for what they deemed perfect. I spent nearly a year on different sites including facebook groups until I found RabbitTalk. You my friend have found a true gem! In the three years I've been raising rabbits I've not found a single forum or group like this site. The people here are so friendly and I have never gotten judged here when I started out raising mix breed rabbits like I got chastised on many a facebook group for not breeding pure rabbits to the standard. I currently breed pedigree rabbits, but not what my facebook group members would consider show quality :roll: :lol: But that is fine with me. My goal is to raise tame and friendly rabbits that make great pets.

Also, do consider this: every rabbit is completely different and unique, so don't be too worried about mothers eating their babies. Each doe is very different and will display different behaviors. It sounds like you may have a smaller group of rabbits to work with since they are so rare and expensive. In that case you will be able to get to know your does well and how they handle each litter.

As you know rabbits stomachs are very delicate and kits are even more so! So just keep that in mind when you are weaning and introducing new foods. Also keep temperature in mind when having kits. I just end up bringing the doe inside a few days before she is due to kindle so I don't have to worry about the kits being born and getting overheated or freezing before I can get to them. I'm sure you probably already know this, but I just thought it might be worth mentioning.

Have fun and I hope to see you here more often! opcorn:

 

[Kittykkat22]

My bunny is called Bonnie, she is mixed breed and she is 1 year and 10 months.

Last weekend my older rabbit died and now Bonnie seems to be lonely, she isn't the friendliest bun but I love her and I'm working on that. Because my other bunny was castrated I never spayed Bonnie and so I decided I wanted to breed her and keep one of her daughters if she has any. If she has multiple daughters I do have a home for them. However, because of Bonnie's age I was worried about her as it will be her first time breeding and I had read about fusing hips, a family friend also mentioned that she had a Dutch rabbit that had died pregnant as it could not get the babies out. Is Bonnie too old? I really don't want to put her through pain or even have her die from it. Bonnie is definitely not a small rabbit but she isn't amazingly large if that makes a difference, She is my avatar, she looks quite small but she is the length of my forearm and hand which is about 40cm. Oh and I work at a yard that owns show rabbits and they agreed to let me use one of their bucks if I wanted.

I haven't read through the whole post so sorry if I'm asking questions that have already been asked.

 

[CopperCopyCat]

Thank you to all for all the information! It is really a great help
A good temperament is actually what the original breeder who developed the breed, Devie, wanted for the rabbits so I think that's why it's mentioned as a breed standard. I would love to think that they wanted a breed that could be relied on to always be sweet and mellow and easy in the home rather than having to get an older rabbit to know what personality you are getting. But that's just my take on it and what I love about that! Kind of like how many dogs have their habits and even personality traits within the breed so you can more easily choose a young pup that fits your household and way of life!
Also on the Ellie's Rabbitry website it states that they molt twice a year, have soft fur(not hair) that feels like that of a mini rex, and that they do not produce dander which is what makes a better fit for those who may be allergic to other animals or pets. Since I'm sorta just starting out with rabbits idk how to tell if something is true or not so if something smells fishy let me know so I dont advertise it on my future website haha!
Honestly I dont think mini Plush lops will ever be recognized as a real breed by the ARBA unfortunately since they have rules against allowing new breeds that only differ in coat or fur so it's less likely although England and Australia might recognize them eventually. So my main concern isn't really showing my rabbits although I will strive to reach the breed standard so that the breed consistency is the same and if I ever did get the chance to show them I would be able to do so!
As for where I'll be keeping them, they'll mostly just be inside as pets since the winters are so harsh here and I would like them to live just as much of the luxury life that my current indoor rabbit lives! I dont want to have to sacrifice my rabbit's comfort just to get more but that's just my belief and something I strive for.

I also wanted to ask how many times you all breed your does?
I have heard a lot of controversy about that. Some I have talked to say only once per year and others say up to 4 to 6 times a year. I was hoping I could breed more often since once a year seems a bit...idk what the word is but I'm sure you know what I mean haha
Especially when people talk so much about rabbits being able to produce so many babies in just a year, 4-7 kits a year doesn't seem like much at all!
So how often do you breed each doe? or how often would you recommend breeding? I dont want to over breed my buns

 

[SableSteel]

It really depends on the doe and the line. 4-6 times a year seems pretty reasonable


Looking at the weights on the website, mini plush lops look to be a dwarf breed... So expect peanuts and false dwarfs (25% of the litter to die within the first week, 25% of the litter to grow larger than the parents).

 

[AmberRae]

Sometimes I will breed my does when their kits are 4 weeks old. Other times I feel like they need a longer break between litters. I will say if I only breed them once a year they would get cranky.

 

[Easy Ears]

Like the others said, it just depends on the doe and what she can handle. Also, each breed is different so you will have to figure out how well this breed does. You could probably do fine with about 4ish litters a year, but you really just need to keep an eye on your does and see how they handle that schedule.

 

[macksmom98]

Welcome to RT! Lots of the things you will read or hear are not normal and you will likely never run into many of those situations. What others have said here is great advice. Be patient, do your research, but just really be up for just about anything! This is a great resource for when you do run into a problem, so if you find yourself in uncharted territory just pop in here as it happens!

 

[CopperCopyCat]

took a little break but now I'm back and have a new question!
So...I wanted to know whether or not to tell a breeder when you are buying from them that you are going to use the baby for breeding?
Do you think it's rude to purchase bunnies from a breeder you intend to use to breed and not tell them?
Wondering because since there are only two other breeders in the US with the originals that I know of or can find and I dont want to make enemies out of them without meaning to but I also dont want to run into a situation where I am either paying 1,000$ per bunny to buy and ship them to me or even worse, They decide not to sell to me because they dont want any more breeders in the US to have the original descendants
I mentioned it to one of the breeders(the one I am not set to buy from already) and she bumped the price from 150 to 500!(To ship the bunny to me would already be 400$ and to go down to pick him or her up would be even more trouble and money!) A price raise I guess is understandable since I would be making money off of her bunny..but idk seemed like a huge jump and her tone completely changed when I mentioned it like she thought I was trying to cheat her or something. Her replies before I mentioned breeding were long, well explained and informative and very friendly while her reply after respectfully and very openly asking her (permission? or blessing?) to breed and work together with her and the other rabbirty(Ellie's rabbitry) was very short, abrupt, and snippy( "Hey, any of my breeding stock starts at $500!!"(Start!?? :x ))
I am already likely going to be paying up to 800$ for a male from the other breeder to buy and ship so I'm scared to mention it to her in fear of ANOTHER price raise or even worse, a denial to buy, but I dont want to alienate them as I would like to work together with them towards a standard...but I'm not having the best experience so far...Any advice?
I sent a message back to her asking her for more information, very politely and nicely.
I'm just so nervous and not sure what to do! Idk if I made a mistake or not!

 

[Winterwolf]

It's usually a good idea to mention the intended purpose of the rabbit you're buying so the breeder can help you select the right rabbit for you. That's odd that she would have raised the price after hearing you wanted to breed it. :hmm: Most of the breeders around here (myself included) set prices based off the rabbit's quality. So, breeding quality stock should already be at the adjusted price. Are you sure it's the same rabbit she raised the price for? Maybe she was trying to say that the breeding quality stock costs $500? Sometimes communicating through text can cause confusion because it's hard to figure out a person's intended tone by what they type. Is there a way you could arrange to talk to her over the phone instead to avoid confusion?

 

[CopperCopyCat]

That might be it, I actually found someone after searching all night(yay!) who is closer and has rabbits from Ellie's Rabbitry and is just starting out with breeding them so she would sell me kits for 100ea male or female so I will likely just buy through her. Maybe get two females and then buy my male directly from Ellie's Rabbitry since I want a more specific coat color for my male. I'm going to be looking for a Sable Chinchilla blue eyed male(idk how long that will take! lol!
The woman who I found last night has both astrex and blue eyes in her lines so I will just depend on her kits for the astrex gene!

 

[KenoshaRabbits]

CopperCopyCat
I would make the suggestion that you step back and reevaluate what it is you actually want out of these plush lops.

As for the increased pricing, if you read between the lines it makes sense. The driving price for this "breed" is its rarity. Another breeder increases the supply driving down the prices. Although you didn't mention a name, a google search show both of these breeders are in the same general area of the state. It would not surprise me if the other breeder, Ellie, got her rabbits from this person, who doesn't like the competition. A third breeder takes $ out of their pocket. While some breeders may charge extra for animals that are good show breeding stock or champion bloodlines; we're talking about a breed that isn't even showable (and as you pointed out might never be showable). It's main defining feature seems to be its rarity.

While I would advise to be honest with them, keep in mind they might not like competition for what is essentially a mutt. Someone who will gladly pay $200 for a pet is their best friend and gets the customer is always right attitude; someone who wants to get in on the action doesn't get the friendly face.

If you read around on this site, this is a common issue. Someone will talk about how they can only charge $15/$20 for a certain breed; others can charge $75/$100 for the same rabbit; others can't even given them away. It's all supply and demand. And in your case you are talking about a breed with a limited supply.

I'm glad you like the plush lop you have, that you think they'd make great pets, and it'd be cool to spread their awesomeness via pet sales. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to make $. But why not just breed mini lops or mini rexes? All I have to go on is 4 posts, but I get the feeling being only the third breeder of rabbits that costs a couple hundred dollars a piece might be a motivating factor. (And even then there is nothing wrong with that being included in your motivation.)

However much of a motivating factor that is, keep in mind (economically speaking) that you entering the market will lower the amount you can charge. How are you going to react when the person next door wants a trio so he can start breeding them? Or if the other two start increasing the breeding pool. And now you aren't sell a rare rabbit and are competing with all the other mini-breeds? (Why should someone pay five times the price for your rabbit vs. a Netherland dwarf?)

So are you prepared to pay a couple thousand for the ability to breed? Are you prepared to wait around four months until they are breedable? Are you prepared to face resistance from people who don't want you to disrupt the artificial scarcity of their product. Are you prepared for possible passive aggressive behavior? (Don't be surprised if you can only get a male and female if they're from the same litter. Or if you can only get bucks. Or if you get rabbits out of the problem rabbits, like a doe from a mother with bad mothering skills. Or if suddenly Ellie "gets a bad feeling" about you and decides not to sell.) <br /><br /> -- Thu May 04, 2017 1:08 pm -- <br /><br /> Oh and not to sound like I just want to pile on bad news...

Since these are a dwarf breed you will also have to worry the possibility of peanuts.

... I was replying to a different thread and thought that info might be relevant to you.