First litter of kits ends in disaster.

[Autumnarcher]

the NZ white does I bought last month pregnant kindled this afternoon. It didnt end well. We are very new at this, and Im sure w e made some mistakes, so feel free to enlighten me on what we should or shouldnt do, to prevent what happened from repeating itself.

Our doe started pulling a little hair about 8-9 days ago, then stopped. I knew it was early, but went ahead and put the nest box in. She got right to work on building a nest. Shes a big doe, and she fills the nest box. She never laid in it, usually sticking to her favorite corner of the cage. This afternoon, she started pulling hair like crazy, leaving it all over the cage, none in the box. I gathered some and put in the box, and a little while later i peeked in on her and she was in the box, putting hair in the hole in the straw at the back of the box.

About 10-15 minutes later my wife went into the shed to feed the others, and came to tell me she was having the kits! we watched as she delivered them, one was stuck between her behind and the end of the nest box, i was worried she would crush it but left her alone, and we left. a bit later I peeked in on her, she was apparently done as she was laying outside the box,and there was a pile of 5-6 kits laying on top of the straw at the front of the box.

I waited a little while, came back and she was licking them clean, and some were crawling towards the back of the nest. I left for a bit hoping she would get them all into the nest, and then join them. Not to be. She just plopped down outside the box, ignoring the kits. i put on some latex gloves and moved them into the fur pile, and left her alone. This was around 8 pm.

I just went out to peek in to see what has gone on since, and she still is ignoring them. One is dead at the front of the box, I could see one moving, and the rest i believe are under the fur, but momma is comfy sitting in the opposite corner of the cage. Shes abandoned them.

the dead one looks a little scratche up, like maybe it got stepped on or something. I dont know the condition of the others, although Im pretty sure she hasnt nursed them at all.

Per the breeder I got her from, she has one prior litter without problems. She does appear rather overweight, the way I got her. As I mentioned, she barely has room to turn around in the nest box shes so big. Shes supposedly only about a year old.

Should we have not gone into the shed to watch her as she was laboring? Could that have put her off? Normally shes very friendly and receptive, and while we didnt interfere with her, Im afraid we may have caused her to abandon them.

Should I have built a bigger nest box for her?

Should I just leave her alone for a couple days before checking the nest again, or should i just check in the morning to see if there are any alive?

I really don't see this getting better. If she does lose this litter, how long should i wait to rebreed her? 2 weeks? a month? Or should I put her on a diet to reduce her weight before breeding again? My thought at this point is I'll give her 2 more shots at kindling a litter, or shes outta here.

I guess my biggest question is, what if anything shouldI do or not do to make sure everything goes well?

Im pretty disappointed as this was to be our first litter. I have one other doe pregnant too, and that will be her first litter.

 

[trinityoaks]

Don't give up yet! She probably hasn't actually abandoned them. Rabbits will not stay in the nest box with their kits the way some other species do. They generally nurse their kits only once or twice per day, and leave them alone the rest of the time.

I would first give her a little treat to distract her, then take the nest box out. You don't need to wear latex gloves--your scent won't keep her from taking care of them. Take all the kits out, count them, and remove any that are dead. Check to make sure they have full tummies (their bellies will look like they swallowed a grape). Remove any soiled nesting material, then return the kits to the nest box and place it back into the cage. Do this at least once a day for the first couple of weeks, twice if you can.

 

[Lightnin1960]

We just had our first litter too. We didn't do anything with them. We never see her in with the kits they are now 2 wks old and look very healthy. Having a hard time keeping some of the kits in the nesting box. She had 9 we thought it was only 6. But we never see her in the box but know she has to be getting in there because they are doing good. I've read on here that the mother only feeds them once or twice a day because her milk is so rich.

I don't know if this will help but that's what I've learned on here so far.

Good Luck

 

[Autumnarcher]

Ok, thats encouraging. I'll see how things look in the morning.

 

[Miss M]

Rabbits are a prey animal, so the mother will seem to ignore the kits ("nope, no tasty kits here!"). You may never see her nurse. She will be in the nest twice a day or so, and only for a few minutes each time. You've seriously got to be in the right place at the right time to ever see her in there.

Trinityoaks is right, it is important to go ahead and remove the nestbox for inspection. A few raisins should get you in good with mom. If the doe did not fully clean up after kindling, or if a kit was stillborn, you need to remove whatever is necessary and leave a clean, dry nest with only live kits in it.

We encourage playing with kits around here. It's fun, and it friendlies them up really well. By the time they're 3 weeks old, the doe will practically be begging you to take them out! :lol:

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

everything you mentioned is normal. Just check the nest for dead babies ect. When the time she kindled is the time you will probable see her feed her babies. Sounds to be a good mom.

 

[grumpy]

All of the above offer good suggestions and practices. I don't "see" a disaster. Only inquisitive new owners. LOL. She'll be fine. Make sure to pull any dead youngsters or afterbirth out of the nest.

Don't expect to catch her in the nest very often. Watch her feed and slowly increase it as the youngsters begin to grow. If she's a heavy milker, overfeeding her early will cause excessive milk production and a possible problem with mastitis.

If she does lose her litter, you can re-breed her fairly quick. But, that decision depends upon "why" the litter was lost in the first place. Desertion of the nest and young rarely happens. Usually, there will be an underlying cause that needs to be discovered. Only time and experience will be helpful to you with those types of questions.

Develop a routine and follow it religiously. Check the box daily, feed at the same time, water at the same time. Rabbits thrive on routine. They can become very "set-in-their-ways". Deviate as little as possible from your established routine.

Grumpy

 

[Autumnarcher]

Ok, I panicked, but after checking the nest all is well. I guess the only disaster is my inexperience. Thanks to all for the input. I counted 5 kits, although they started squirming and flipping around so there might be 6. I only found the one dead one. The nest was prettyclean, and they appeared to have been fed. Momma got a nice handful of fresh clover greens and some extra outs and sunflower seeds this morning. everything appears to be fine at this point. Whew!

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

Ok, I panicked, but after checking the nest all is well. I guess the only disaster is my inexperience. Thanks to all for the input. I counted 5 kits, although they started squirming and flipping around so there might be 6. I only found the one dead one. The nest was prettyclean, and they appeared to have been fed. Momma got a nice handful of fresh clover greens and some extra outs and sunflower seeds this morning. everything appears to be fine at this point. Whew!

You came to the right place to asked your question. You dont learn if you dont ask. Right?
Congrats on the new babies and give pics and update later as they grow.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Ahem....pictures? LOL Congratulations on the new litter! Don't worry, soon it won't be such a nerve wracking experience...

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Goodness! You had a very bad case of "Nestbox Nerves"! :lol:

She sounds like a very good doe- she kept her nest clean even though she started building so early, and she is staying out of the nest except to feed. It goes against our thinking since most of us have only experienced cats or dogs having litters and they stay with their babies almost constantly at first. With rabbits, if you have a doe that does that you usually end up with a dead litter because they get crushed!

I check my nests at least once a day during cold months, and twice a day or more when it is warm. Since my does get yummy treats when I do so, they don't mind. You want to check for dead kits and get them out quickly, especially when it is warm out- they can start to decompose pretty fast! Look the kits over to see if they are fed and their bottoms are clean. Early handling makes for friendly rabbits, as Miss M said.

The doe that is expecting may not get it right the first time- sometimes the first time moms will have one or more kits on the wire, and you may find cold, apparently dead kits. If so, put them next to your bare skin and get them into the house to warm up. An easy way to do that is to warm up some towels in the dryer, and put them in there with the door closed to keep the heat in, warning everybody NOT to turn the dryer on. You may save them that way- the saying here goes "They aren't dead until they are warm and dead!"

Congratulations on the popples, and good luck with your first time doe.

 

[trinityoaks]

One other thing I should mention: sometimes a nursing kit will hang on too long while mama leaves the nest box and get pulled out. The doe will NOT put it back in the nest. If you find a kit out of the nest box, you will need to put it back in yourself so that it doesn't escape from the cage, get stepped on, or get too chilled away from its littermates.

As the kits get more mobile, they start exploring (even before their eyes open), and may crawl out of the nest box but not know how to get back in. Put a brick against the opening of the nest box as a "step" for them to climb on to get back into the nest.

 

[Miss M]

Sounds like you've got a good mama doe there! :razz:

One more thing -- rabbits cannot pick up their babies like cats can. Their teeth would slice right through a kit's skin. If a baby gets pulled out of the nestbox, you'll need to put it back in (after warming it up, if it's not nice and warm). <br /><br />__________ Fri May 25, 2012 10:14 am __________<br /><br />Haha, I see TrinityOaks already said that!

 

[skysthelimit]

Congrats on your first litter. It is a humbling experience. Once your rabbits get used to your presence, you can never handle them too much. If I had not looked in the box while she was kindling, if I had left her alone, my holland doe would probably be dead, because the kits were stuck, and I pulled five kits out of her, she was not able to deliver a single one by herself.

I handle my rabbits a lot, I've been known to press my nose against theirs when I open their cages, I kiss the top of their heads, stroke their ears. I take my nest boxes in to handle the babies from birth. They are pretty used to seeing me, and i know someone is ill if they don't run to the front of the cage to greet me when I enter the barn.

 

[Autumnarcher]

Update- all is well. She originally delivered 8 kits, we lost 2, I think she stepped on them. Shes so big, next time around I'll make her a bigger nest box. Since the first day, I've pretty much left them alone, peeking in here and there. We have 6 kits, and with the hot weekend, they crawled out of the furball to cool off a bit, but are all doing fine. Starting to get a little fuzz on them. I'll pospt some pics in a few days. The nest box is very clean, so I havent had to change any straw yet, but will do so this weekend. Thanks to everyone for advice and encouragement, this is all new stuff for me. Im kind of going with the plan to just let her and nature do their thing with as little interference as possible.

 

[Miss M]

Congratulations! Sounds like she's doing great!

Kits being stepped on is something you see in nestboxes that are too small, but also occasionally in nestboxes that are not too small. Could just be her lack of experience.

 

[Cindi Davis]

Woo Hoo I cant wait to see new ones I have 2 litters due tomorrow or friday, show me yours will show all my new ones

 

[-HRanchito]

So glad this babies are doing well!

 

[Autumnarcher]

Heres the babies at 6 days, there are 6 of them, and doing well. Our 2nd doe, a NZ Red kindled last night. I'll be pulling the box out here shortly to get a count. Shes a bit more skittish, so Im gonna let her rest for a bit before I get into the nest.

 

[Miss M]

Wonderful! They look great!

A few raisins should help bribe your NZR. :mrgreen: