Feeding Cabbage--and Other Brassica plants

[ramblingrabbit]

I was just looking through this again (http://www.mybunnyfarm.com/science/ch2.htm, which is one of my favorite references on rabbit food plants), and I came across this sentence:

"Where cabbage can be grown it should be added to the list. Cabbage is a traditional rabbit feed in France. Its 17 to 20 percent protein content is fairly high. Trials in Cameroon suggest that cabbage can form up to 15 percent of the diet."

I also recalled reading in the Rabbittalk ebook "Backyard Rabbit Farming" about growing extra kale for rabbits--the author seemed to think it was one of the best things you could grow for them.

Yet I have read elsewhere that Brassica group plants can cause bloat, and should be fed only in small quantities, if at all. And I can't site source, but somewhere along the way I picked up the idea that the oxalic acid thing could be an issue too. So while we feed modest amounts of kale regularly (we grow lots and lots of kale all year for our CSA), and occasionally cabbage, I've only given small amounts at a time and instructed others to do the same. (I had a minor case of diarhea a while ago in a single young rabbit, a runt, that lasted mere hours, and at the time I suspected that it ate too much kale, although it could actually of course have been any number of other things.)

I might add also, since it must count for something, that as far as the rabbits are concerned, out of all the things we give them kale is just about their favorite thing to eat. They will go for the kale first and even dig through other things to get at it. The only other thing that comes close is cilantro.

Clearly, opinions will differ, but what do you all think about this, and how would you reconcile all this information? Experiences? Thoughts?

 

[MaggieJ]

I avoided feeding cabbage to my rabbits for years out of worry about bloat. But winter greens here are limited, so eventually - knowing that European rabbit raisers traditionally fed cabbage and other brassicas - I phased it in very slowly while other greens are still available in fall. I've had absolutely no problem and even kits just out of the nest tunnels chow down on it quite happily.

Can brassicas cause bloat and diarrhea? Undoubtedly they can. But I think most of the problems come when such greens are added suddenly to the diet. The rabbits need time to develop the proper gut flora before eating larger quantities of these very useful foods.

 

[Miss M]

Like Maggie said, as long as you start small and increase slowly, you should have no problems.

 

[ladysown]

I don't do cabbage with the lops, but I do cabbage with the other buns I have. I find the lops are more prone to bloat issues so I just don't go there with them.

But my bigger buns for the most are just fine.

Though I did lose a young meat rabbit this spring ater I fed some baby broccol plants

 

[stone soup farm]

I have often wondered the same thing. My rabbits love kale and I have it growing year round. I do try to feed sparingly and have not tried cabbage. I haven't seen any problem with the kale and might up it. It doesn't have oxalic acid like other brassica and spinach do, but lots of people think it does. It is high in calcium and some say is gassy, but I haven't noticed that myself. I think I will up the amount of kale I feed for mine.

 

[Ivory]

Thanks for that info ramblingrabbit. I was under the impression cabbage was bad for rabbits (info via my vet) so I always take it out whenever its in the supermarket scraps. Now I know I don't need to be so fussy.

 

[ramblingrabbit]

Thanks for sharing, folks!

Stone Soup: Kale does in fact contain some oxalic acid (a very common compound in plants) but in much lower levels than beet greens, chard, and spinach, which is probably where the general confusion comes in. My experience with growing different kales suggests to me that this may also have A LOT to do with the specific variety of kale in question. For example, we have this one Ethiopean Kale that makes my throat burn if I try to eat it raw. This article doesn't look uber scientific, but here's a list I found of the oxalic acid content of various foods: http://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sa ... ables.html. Kale is somewhere down there in the range of lettuces, below garlic and leeks--although there's no mention of the variety of kale or any source info. Notice, however, that parsley tops the list, and we know that parsley makes fine rabbit food in moderation, so clearly this can't be a big issue. I also couldn't help noticing that it throws cassava in there, which is kind of silly, because I know from growing, eating, and feeding the stuff (ALWAYS COOKED) to my chickens, that raw cassava also contains cyanide compounds that are a lot more relevant than any oxalic acid--this makes me inclined to take the whole thing with a grain of salt. Raw kale does contain some thyroid-affecting compounds for humans (always trying to gentely tell my kale-salad-loving customers this, haha), but maybe this doesn't matter for rabbits, which evolved to eat primarily leaves.

Anyway...

Cool! Now I won't feel so uneasy about including plenty of kale in the rabbit salad...

 

[Joe n TN]

I avoided feeding cabbage to my rabbits for years out of worry about bloat. But winter greens here are limited, so eventually - knowing that European rabbit raisers traditionally fed cabbage and other brassicas - I phased it in very slowly while other greens are still available in fall. I've had absolutely no problem and even kits just out of the nest tunnels chow down on it quite happily.

Can brassicas cause bloat and diarrhea? Undoubtedly they can. But I think most of the problems come when such greens are added suddenly to the diet. The rabbits need time to develop the proper gut flora before eating larger quantities of these very useful foods.

Two thumbs up for Maggie's reply. I've done the same and feed mine quite a bit each day, sometimes as much as half of their fodder per day is from a brassica.

Joe

 

[ramblingrabbit]

Two thumbs up for Maggie's reply. I've done the same and feed mine quite a bit each day, sometimes as much as half of their fodder per day is from a brassica.

Joe

Fabulous! Thanks Joe (and Maggie)

We have a bunch of curly kale right now that is unmarketable so I've been slowly giving more of it. My only concern is that it seems like they hardly eat anything else when there's kale available! Have you experienced this?

 

[Joe n TN]

My rabbits prefer forage over pellets. Makes sense, fresh natural food is better than processed food any day of the week. Kale is the most nutrient dense food on the planet so if they're eating that they won't need as much of their other feed.

Joe

 

[SatinsRule]

I don't feed cabbage at all. For years, the ARBA warned against doing so, and there are plenty more available forms of vegetable supplements which can be grown in the same garden space and are better for them IMHO.

 

[MaggieJ]

It's a matter of climate, SatinsRule. Down your way there are likely plants that grow year-round. Here in Ontario, the growing season winds up in October and doesn't get going until well into April. Cabbage stores well and is cheap in the stores in winter. So it fills a valuable niche.

And really... give me the experience of centuries of European rabbit raising over ARBA any day of the week when it comes to natural feeding.

 

[ramblingrabbit]

I don't feed cabbage at all. For years, the ARBA warned against doing so, and there are plenty more available forms of vegetable supplements which can be grown in the same garden space and are better for them IMHO.

Thanks, I'm happy to hear all sorts of perspectives--that's never a bad thing!

But I'm curious if you don't mind, WHY did the ARBA warn against feeding cabbage? And do they mean just European types of heading cabbage per se or other plants of the same (very closely related) group, for some of which the word "cabbage" is also sometimes loosely applied (kale, collards, rape, broccoli, arugula, turnips, radishes, gai lan, bok choy, etc. etc.)?

I'm sure there's a lot that I do that the ARBA wouldn't like too much, haha. For example, I don't grow "vegetable supplements;" I feed mainly a base mix of green fodder, including legumes, grass, leafy vegetables, and other plants, wild and cultivated, and my "supplements" rather are a little grain, roots, and sugarcane stalk--not exactly your typical ARBA-recommended ration! More along the lines of forage-based meat rabbit projects in developing countries--or like Maggie alludes to, older rabbit-raising practices.

By the way, the gentleman I bought these rabbits from told me to feed a half cup of pellets a day I think it was, occasionally some ti leaves (Cordyline fruticosa) and in particular to NEVER give the young bunnies ANYTHING green, or else they would get diarhea and die! If only he could see them now, at 5 weeks old devouring anything green I throw at them and not a loose stool in sight! :lol: Fortunately I did my own research and now I know better... He was a smart gentleman though, seriously, with years of experience--he was apparently just stuck in certain model and it's associated way of thinking, and what he said was true--in a certain context.

So now I suppose that's why, whenever somebody says "Never do such and such" I'm always curious and skeptical and want to know their reasoning...

 

[SatinsRule]

I don't feed cabbage at all. For years, the ARBA warned against doing so, and there are plenty more available forms of vegetable supplements which can be grown in the same garden space and are better for them IMHO.

Thanks, I'm happy to hear all sorts of perspectives--that's never a bad thing!

But I'm curious if you don't mind, WHY did the ARBA warn against feeding cabbage? And do they mean just European types of heading cabbage per se or other plants of the same (very closely related) group, for some of which the word "cabbage" is also sometimes loosely applied (kale, collards, rape, broccoli, arugula, turnips, radishes, gai lan, bok choy, etc. etc.)?

I'm sure there's a lot that I do that the ARBA wouldn't like too much, haha. For example, I don't grow "vegetable supplements;" I feed mainly a base mix of green fodder, including legumes, grass, leafy vegetables, and other plants, wild and cultivated, and my "supplements" rather are a little grain, roots, and sugarcane stalk--not exactly your typical ARBA-recommended ration! More along the lines of forage-based meat rabbit projects in developing countries--or like Maggie alludes to, older rabbit-raising practices.

By the way, the gentleman I bought these rabbits from told me to feed a half cup of pellets a day I think it was, occasionally some ti leaves (Cordyline fruticosa) and in particular to NEVER give the young bunnies ANYTHING green, or else they would get diarhea and die! If only he could see them now, at 5 weeks old devouring anything green I throw at them and not a loose stool in sight! :lol: Fortunately I did my own research and now I know better... He was a smart gentleman though, seriously, with years of experience--he was apparently just stuck in certain model and it's associated way of thinking, and what he said was true--in a certain context.

So now I suppose that's why, whenever somebody says "Never do such and such" I'm always curious and skeptical and want to know their reasoning...

You'll have to forgive me as my guide books of 30+ years ago are no longer in my possession and trying to quote them verbatim would be next to impossible because of that, but to the best of my knowledge, it was known to create diahrrea more often than not. I do remember it being in a question and answer format similar to this:

Q-I should feed my rabbits cabbage, and lots of it, right?

A-"NO!!" says the ARBA, and the reason is...

It stuck with me from the moment I received my guide book. I followed it to the letter from that day forward, and can honestly say it served me well. I've never fed cabbage and my rabbits have fared well without it.

 

[MaggieJ]

You'll have to forgive me as my guide books of 30+ years ago are no longer in my possession and trying to quote them verbatim would be next to impossible because of that, but to the best of my knowledge, it was known to create diahrrea more often than not. I do remember it being in a question and answer format similar to this:

Q-I should feed my rabbits cabbage, and lots of it, right?

A-"NO!!" says the ARBA, and the reason is...

It stuck with me from the moment I received my guide book. I followed it to the letter from that day forward, and can honestly say it served me well. I've never fed cabbage and my rabbits have fared well without it.

You don't have to feed cabbage and other brassicas. Your rabbits will do just fine without them, as long as their diet is adequate. But the ARBA example cited is an example of what happens when rabbits are not allowed to develop the normal rabbit gut flora necessary to handle such greens.

If you take a rabbit raised on pellets and give it a big chunk of cabbage, then it will likely have problems. If you take a small child used to processed foods and give him a big bowl of salad followed by a helping of fruit, then he will have problems too! It is the sudden change that creates the problem... not the fresh foods themselves.

My rabbits eat greens of all types alongside their elders as soon as they come out of the nest tunnels. They just nibble at first since they are still nursing, but they are preparing themselves naturally for a hay/greens/grain diet while they are learning about solid foods. The best piece of advice about rabbits I was ever given was this: "Start as you mean to continue."

 

[ramblingrabbit]

If there's one thing I've learned about rabbit digestion so far it's that it is ALL ABOUT THE GUT FLORA... Applies to humans too but it seems rabbits rely on it even more.