Fear kits starved

[JessiDarklighter]

My holland lop gave birth to 7 kits around 3 am Monday morning. Since then I've checked in on her and the kits often, though I've only handled the kits a couple of times to inventory the marks and check their temperatures. This morning, I discovered they were slightly chilly, and I coaxed mama into the nesting box where, once I had soothed her for a minute, she stayed still and let her kits go at it. I checked in a few minutes later and discovered she'd pulled a kit to the wire when she jumped out, and replaced the kit in the nesting box.
Late this afternoon, I checked again, and found several kits chilled with one very cold, but still moving. I piled them onto my chest under a flannel sheet and watched a tv show, and when I checked again most seemed warm and healthy, and one was dead. I looked closer, and found at least one more that is wrinkled and shrunken, and I'm afraid I'm gonna lose that one too, very soon.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, for me, I know several rabbitry owners in the area. The first told me to try to get the skinny kit to nurse on kitten replacement milk until my more experienced doe gives birth (sometime between Friday and Monday). The second, larger rabbitry owner told me that kitten formula would be no help. Can anyone settle this argument?
Also, probably related to the baby eating problem, I've discovered the mama still hasn't picked up her eating habbits. I'm used to them dropping off before birth, but the one I'm used to starts to eat like a pig as soon as the kits are born. I'm pretty sure from the mound of pellets in the does cage that she has had little to no food since she gave birth.
This is my first holland lop, with my first batch of lop babies. I'm really scared I'm going to lose all of them. Can anyone tell me what's going on, and what to do about it?

 

[Shan_non]

My experience with replacement milk (KMR) has been positive for only 1 kit. He accepted the syringe and ate like a champ. All the rest I have tried it with did not accept the milk. I have had better luck turning my doe over on her back and allowing the skinny kits extra time to nurse alone. I would get some easily digestible fresh foods in with mom to encourage her to eat and also help move things along.

 

[JessiDarklighter]

I got the two wrinkly kits to take a few drops of kitten replacement powder at half dose formula to water. one filled out like a balloon and the other started moving like crazy. after drying out spilled formula as best as possible, put both back with the rest of the litter and then lifted mama into the nesting box. she sniffed the kits a couple times then turned around to give them access. Didn't stay long enough IMO but better than nothing. Put the whole group back in the birthing cage, and the mama is now sniffing the foods. shes got a mound of pellets, and smaller pile of short cut hay, and a handful of old fashioned oats.

 

[shazza]

if she's a first-time mom, it's not too uncommon for her to not get it all right. i wouldn't hold it against her too much. it's very common also for does to not really get much if any milk in for a few days, especially on their first litter. it's a survival mechanism to prevent mastitis should she lose the litter. this is why it is standard practice to breed an experienced doe on the same day as a new doe, just in case the new doe has some problems, you still have a foster mom that gave birth on the same day. i find that after two or three days fostering is hit or miss. the kits are just too different in size.

i would try homer's kit formula (the thread is pinned to the top of this forum,) as kmr alone isn't nutritious enough for rabbits. if she keeps feeding them at least a little, you may get away with just kmr as a suppliment, but better safe than sorry imo. most of the ingredients for homer's formula store well or can be easily consumed by you afterwards.

 

[akane]

Kits that don't eat can't make heat and kits that aren't warm can't digest milk. It rapidly becomes a problem you can't correct easily. We don't have a good replacement for rabbit milk. I generally mixed goat or foal replacer to double concentration. The brand of goat kid formula I had actually matched tested values of cottontail milk pretty exactly when just doubled up. You can supplement them with even plain kitten formula on top of some rabbit milk for a very short time but without rabbit milk the outcome is poor and the younger you have to start fully feeding them the worse the odds. Even with a more successful formula and getting them to weaning they often fail to adjust to solid food without the conditions a mother rabbit would provide. Overall I eventually just found it not worth trying to save anything that wasn't ready to at least nibble actual food or wasn't going to be fostered in a couple days. It was far easier on doe, human, and the slowly starving kits to let them go if it's going to happen and simply try for another litter sooner. The doe often improves after 1 or 2 litters. Everything happens in the right order better and their instinct for staying in the box to feed improves. Stress and hormones frequently don't go smoothly the first time or 2.

Some does will go off feed around giving birth. It may not help milk production but they usually recover without it becoming a big deal. If you can tempt them with some oats (the more cut up like oatmeal the better they tend to be accepted), black oil sunflower seeds, or safe greens it's usually enough for a couple days. I found giving the milk replacement formulas sprinkled on the food to the does can help supplement them for milk production without having to go buy something else if you try to supplement kits anyway but it won't provide much actual useful food instead of just a nutrition boost. If they like something that gets plenty of high energy food in them go with that but if they really won't eat then fiber, such as hay or more mature plant forage, is far more important short term than maintaining energy and nutrition. Long term recovering condition and feeding kits may be important but none of it will do any good in the short term if they eat so little the digestive tract doesn't move enough to avoid complications that can be life threatening. Some short drop in food is fine but if they pretty much stop eating or won't pick back up again quickly it needs immediately dealt with in practically any way that works with the more fiber the better.

 

[JessiDarklighter]

if she's a first-time mom, it's not too uncommon for her to not get it all right. i wouldn't hold it against her too much. it's very common also for does to not really get much if any milk in for a few days, especially on their first litter. it's a survival mechanism to prevent mastitis should she lose the litter. this is why it is standard practice to breed an experienced doe on the same day as a new doe, just in case the new doe has some problems, you still have a foster mom that gave birth on the same day. i find that after two or three days fostering is hit or miss. the kits are just too different in size.

i would try homer's kit formula (the thread is pinned to the top of this forum,) as kmr alone isn't nutritious enough for rabbits. if she keeps feeding them at least a little, you may get away with just kmr as a suppliment, but better safe than sorry imo. most of the ingredients for homer's formula store well or can be easily consumed by you afterwards.

This is the reason that I have two first time does, and one very experienced doe. I bred them all the same day, but as my rabbittry friend likes to tell me "they don't care what we want." I kept trying until I was pretty sure they were all pregnant in a span of a week or so, and my experienced doe is due sunday but I think she will come early based on her nesting behavior.

My next question is; if my worst fear is realized and I lose all the kits, do I try again? And when? Like I said, my experienced doe is due sunday, and my other first timer is due Thursday after. I also have an Oopsie doe that is probably pregnant but because she was living in the buck cage I have no clue when she's due.

 

[shazza]

yep, i'm having a bit of that right now, though i kinda expected both to miss because of the heat. nope, only the new doe took, but she's doing amazing so far. thankfully.

if she loses all the kits, you can try again immediately. it's very likely she'll get it right next time, but it's still a good idea to breed another doe alongside her.