Fawn? Rex

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I'm trying to figure out the genetics for this buck. No pedigree, and so far he isn't breeding. I was told he's a fawn. Having trouble finding out what that means for his genotype because of the fawn/cream/red being different between breeds.

My main question is would he be dilute? Is there anything else I can know just by his phenotype?

At this point all that I think I know is he is A_(because he's not tort) ee Enen😅
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I'm trying to figure out the genetics for this buck. No pedigree, and so far he isn't breeding. I was told he's a fawn. Having trouble finding out what that means for his genotype because of the fawn/cream/red being different between breeds.

My main question is would he be dilute? Is there anything else I can know just by his phenotype?

At this point all that I think I know is he is A_(because he's not tort) ee Enen😅
View attachment 40138
View attachment 40137
I would say Broken Red. Diluted? Or just light? It will be interesting to see what the others say.

https://www.minkhollow.ca/rabbits/doku.php?id=rex_standard
 
I'm trying to figure out the genetics for this buck. No pedigree, and so far he isn't breeding. I was told he's a fawn. Having trouble finding out what that means for his genotype because of the fawn/cream/red being different between breeds.

My main question is would he be dilute? Is there anything else I can know just by his phenotype?

At this point all that I think I know is he is A_(because he's not tort) ee Enen😅
He looks to me like a fawn, aka dilute red/orange <A_??C_ddeeENen> I am concluding this by the first and third photos, in which he has a distinctly creamy cast (I believe what you're referring to as "dusty"). The middle photo, however, looks more like orange. I use ?? in the B spot because there is a trend for red breeders to use chocolate-based colors. He has incredibly clean color, so he might be one of those.

Your question is a good one. Since red is an accepted color in Rex but orange, fawn and cream are not, he could be either a lousy red (aka orange, red without all the plus modifiers, which you can get when you breed a red with another color that does not contribute those modifiers) or dilute red/orange. I usually call the latter color "fawn," but as you note, that can mean something else in a few different breeds (basically low-rufus orange but not dilute, in Flemish Giants; French, English and Mini Lops; and the angora breeds); the other option for a color name for dilute orange would be "cream."

Sometimes, but not always, dilute colored animals will have slightly lighter eyes than their dense colored counterparts, so if his eyes are not quite the dark brown of a red, that might be a clue.

Here's a lousy red (orange) NZ/Satin bunny out of a NZR and a red Satin. Surprisingly, the entire litter of eight was this color, so although there was a blue way back on the doe's side, I am almost certain that this animal is not dilute (but in genetics, especially dealing with recessives, I won't say anything is 100% sure :ROFLMAO:). So you can see that dilute versus simply pale color can be tricky.
NZR cross bunny.JPG

In my experience it takes a pedigree or a test breeding to distinguish between pale orange and fawn/cream. But since I try not to breed orange or fawn (in Satins and NZs I want red, though obviously I don't always get it!), I don't have extensive experience with it, so I'll be interested to hear if anyone else has any phenotypic clues to distinguish dense orange from dilute.
 
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He looks to me like a fawn, aka dilute red/orange <A_??C_ddE_ENen> I am concluding this by the first and third photos, in which he has a distinctly creamy cast (I believe what you're referring to as "dusty"). The middle photo, however, looks more like orange. I use ?? in the B spot because there is a trend for red breeders to use chocolate-based colors. He has incredibly clean color, so he might be one of those.

Your question is a good one. Since red is an accepted color in Rex but orange, fawn and cream are not, he could be either a lousy red (aka orange, red without all the plus modifiers, which you can get when you breed a red with another color that does not contribute those modifiers) or dilute red/orange. I usually call the latter color "fawn," but as you note, that can mean something else in a few different breeds (basically low-rufus orange but not dilute, in Flemish Giants; French, English and Mini Lops; and the angora breeds); the other option for a color name for dilute orange would be "cream."

Sometimes, but not always, dilute colored animals will have slightly lighter eyes than their dense colored counterparts, so if his eyes are not quite the dark brown of a red, that might be a clue.

Here's a lousy red (orange) NZ/Satin bunny out of a NZR and a red Satin. The entire litter of eight was this color, so although there was a blue way back on the doe's side, I am almost certain that this animal is not dilute (but in genetics, especially dealing with recessives, I won't say anything is 100% sure :ROFLMAO:). So you can see that dilute versus simply pale color can be tricky.
View attachment 40141

In my experience it takes a pedigree or a test breeding to distinguish between pale orange and fawn/cream. But since I try not to breed orange or fawn (in Satins and NZs I want red, though obviously I don't always get it!), I don't have extensive experience with it, so I'll be interested to hear if anyone else has any phenotypic clues to distinguish dense orange from dilute.
Thanks! I definitely think the middle picture looks more "orange" than he really is.

I'm hoping he'll breed on my next round of pairings. I won't be able to breed him to a confirmed dilute carrier until probably April 8th.

I'm comparing his color with what I've seen in the difference of orange/black tri compared to dilute/fawn tri. To me he definitely looks like the dilute colored rabbits. I just haven't seen many in person and it's hard to make good comparisons off of a screen without the real life experience lol

So he should be A_??C_ddeeEnen I think. If he was cchd he'd be ermine right? Not sure what cchl does with red? Obviously ch or c would be obvious. No way to tell B locus visually... maybe if he starts breeding I'll try him with my chocolate doe also.
 
So he should be A_??C_ddeeEnen I think. If he was cchd he'd be ermine right? Not sure what cchl does with red? Obviously ch or c would be obvious. No way to tell B locus visually... maybe if he starts breeding I'll try him with my chocolate doe also.
Ah, you caught my typo - of course he's ee not E_. (y)

Yes, this is a C_ color. All of the less dominant C alleles reduce/eliminate the expression of yellow pigments, so having c(chd), c(chl) or c(h) in the dominant position on a non-extension agouti rabbit would produce nearly colorless (ermine or frosty) rabbits. And cc would be REW.
 
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