Excess cecotropes...why, and how to fix?

[bikegurl]

I have a doe nursing a week-and-a-half-old litter of 9. I feed pellets free choice, with a couple TBSP of BOSS in the morning. I also give her a few handfuls of greens each day. (grass, dandelions, mugwort, strawberry, Queen Anne's Lace, Goldenrod, clover) She also gets free choice 2nd cutting alfalfa/grass hay.

She pretty much always acts ravenous, though she is not allowed to run out of food.
She also has always had cecotropes mushed in her cage ever since the end of her pregnancy. Is this something I should be concerned about? If so, how do I address it?

By the way, this is the blue doe, Heather.
Thanks!

 

[FourRingCircus]

I was informed of what I believe was called a "poop pancake" - the mama doe makes a pile for the babies to eat off of, I guess to get their GI systems up and running??

 

[Miss M]

Yes, the babies eating the mother's cecotropes and even regular poops will help get their systems running, but they don't need a large amount. Cecotropes are sometimes pretty difficult to scrape from a cage when dried.

I know the usual answer for overproduction (or rather undereating) of cecotropes is switching from high % protein to 16%, perhaps limiting pellet intake some more and providing more hay, but I'm not sure what to do for a nursing doe.

 

[bikegurl]

Yes, the babies eating the mother's cecotropes and even regular poops will help get their systems running, but they don't need a large amount. Cecotropes are sometimes pretty difficult to scrape from a cage when dried.

I know the usual answer for overproduction (or rather undereating) of cecotropes is switching from high % protein to 16%, perhaps limiting pellet intake some more and providing more hay, but I'm not sure what to do for a nursing doe.

The kits are still in the nestbox, and most of the ceotropes are outside, on the floor of the cage, so the kits don't have access to them...

I thought that might be the usual way to address the problem...but since she is nursing, I don't want to reduce her feed. Also, today I realized that she is getting pretty thin. I guess with 9 fat babies sucking her juices, she is getting run down. Which should I worry about most, not eating cecotropes, or getting too thin? Is there something I should add to her diet to keep her weight up?

 

[Miss M]

I'd be concerned about both, but probably the getting too thin first. The cecotropes contain a large amount of nutrients that must be eaten the second time in order to be absorbed, and I wonder why she is not eating them. It doesn't seem reasonable that she is saving them all for her babies.

You're already giving her a nice helping of BOSS. You could give her some oats, or some calf manna.

I'm wondering, though, if perhaps you should give her some pumpkin seeds to treat for worms, just in case that's part of what's up. They certainly can't hurt her. A tablespoon or so of raw pumpkin seeds (you can get them at the grocery store, usually) with or without the shells - maybe 2 tablespoons if they have the shells. I don't know if it's a single-dose thing or what, as I've never seen anybody give more info than that. With her losing weight like that, I would think you could give her some every day for a while to help her bring her weight back up, maybe alternating with BOSS.

Zass mentioned in another thread that sudden weight loss could be indicative of dehydration: post266753.html#p266753

You can give her Pedialyte, Gatorade, or homemade electrolyte solution (MSD has a recipe around here somewhere. It's easily found with a search.).

:clover:

 

[Zass]

I was thinking along those lines too Miss M!

The diet is very rich, and with rabbits more caloric intake doesn't automatically give you more rabbit weight. Things can go the opposite if they are not effectively digesting their food.

Who wants to eat poo when there is so much boss and fresh greens, alfalfa hay, and yummy pellets?
Something like that might be going on, but she needs to eat her cecotropes to get the maximum nutrients from what she's eating.

You could probably 1/2 the amount of boss she gets, and maybe restrict some of the greens, like clover since she's already getting a legume (alfalfa) in her pellets and her hay.

Oats (because of their ease of digestion) and pumpkin seeds are great ideas too Miss M!

Just remember that pumpkin seeds are oily like boss, so you will want to cut that back even more if she gets those too.

(I am absolutely not a fan of calf manna.. IMO that stuff is awfully overpriced for being primarily corn)

 

[bikegurl]

Thanks so much for the suggestions!

I mixed up MSD's electrolyte solution using molasses, but the doe wasn't interested... :roll: I do have it available for her, in case she drinks any though.
I also reduced her BOSS and didn't give her greens yesterday or today. We will be getting pumpkin seeds soon (hopefully today).