Ermine Rabbits

[LopLover]

So I have recently come across people talking about the color ermine in rabbits, also known at the brown-eyed white. I know it is not a show able color but I was curious as to know if the gene for ermine is located on the C-gene such as the shaded gene, chin gene and REW gene are. Also is it dominant or recessive or even partial dominant/recessive. I am curious to learn more about it.

 

[WhiteWingRabbitry]

It is essentially non-extension chinchilla. It ranges from WHITE with brown eyes, to an actual frosted with colored tips. I love the color and am working with it on my meat/fur mutt line.

 

[Nyctra]

Unless it's something else entirely, I think it's just a frosty with minimal ticking. So it's sort of on the C's, but also relies on A_ and ee, and maybe wideband and rufus. Basically it's the chinchilla version of red.

This is a frosty/ermine/black-eyed-white I'd bred using NZR and chinchilla Satin blood. He shed into just the tiniest bit of ticking on his ears and nose when he grew into his fryer fur. Didn't get to keep him around any longer to see what he'd look like full grown.

 

[WhiteWingRabbitry]

They might get slightly darker as they get older, but not much. I've got furs from ones processed at 12-16weeks that are heavily ticked, they started out looking like a smutty/dirty white. I also have a 5 month old that you have to hold her at just the right angle to see any shading on the body, although her ears are heavily ticked. She started out indistinguishable from her REW siblings, similar to the one pictured above.

 

[akane]

Mine have more color than most of those.

Black frosty

lilac frosty




Young blue frosty


blue is next to a lilac and a regular black chin


Don't have a chocolate frosty/ermine yet. I'm thinking of making a whole ermine colony in a 6x10' space I have.

 

[WhiteWingRabbitry]

Don't have a chocolate frosty/ermine yet. I'm thinking of making a whole ermine colony in a 6x10' space I have.

My middle one had a lot, just washed out in the photo. I'm pretty sure that one was chocolate. The mom was a chocolate tort.

 

[Celice]

I haven't come across ermine often but I one had an entire litter from a chinchilla doe lop that was that color. Beautiful rabbits! love the frosty color, they are like a REALLY light Sallander. In fact the bunny on my icon was one of the ermine kits.

 

[Prisma]

Frosty is ermine from what I know, just different name for different breeds. There is brown eyed and blue/gray eyed. In some breeds they are a showing color Holland Lops is one of those breeds (I'd have to look at SOP but I think that goes for all lop breeds). It is some times hard to get a good one however, too much ticking and its a dq or if a frosty isn't really a true frosty and a sable frost.

 

[Zass]

Mine started looking like brown eyes whites, and the color would come in better as they mature.
This one's color was coming in kinda funny:

 

[WhiteWingRabbitry]

They are the same genetic sequence, just different rufus modifiers, from what I understand.
What's the sable frosty? I haven't come across that one. I've had a couple sables, but that doe was mean and didn't throw big kitts, so she didn't stay long.

 

[akane]

I don't know about rufus modifiers doing anything. The various colors are just the different basic colors. Lilac (aabbC*ddE*) to lilac chin (A*bbchd*ddE*) to lilac ermine (A*bbchd*ddee). Repeat for other colors. I'm guessing a sable frosty would just be the light chin/sable gene chl instead of chd.

 

[LopLover]

Thank you for all the information, guys. I contemplated working with the color after I graduate from college and potentially working on making it into a color specific breed (Me and my longshot ideas. Lol). I really appreciate the feedback. I guess I didn't realize it was multiple genes that caused that. The site that I actually learned about the color from alluded towards it being a rare gene that only shows up every once in a while so I figured this was one of the best places to ask.

 

[Dood]

The only reason it's "rare" is because it's not a showable colour in most breeds, just like fox, sallander and shaded agouti

When I get a magpie without the Harli gene I either get chinchilla, shaded agouti or frosty/ermine

 

[WhiteWingRabbitry]

I don't know about rufus modifiers doing anything. The various colors are just the different basic colors. Lilac (aabbC*ddE*) to lilac chin (A*bbchd*ddE*) to lilac ermine (A*bbchd*ddee). Repeat for other colors. I'm guessing a sable frosty would just be the light chin/sable gene chl instead of chd.

I was referring to Ermine vs Frosty being the same genetic sequence, and the amount of color on the tips being determined/affected by the rufus modifiers. Most people refer to the white as Ermine, and the tipped as Frosty (that I have seen).

 

[Zass]

I always just thought ermine VS frosty was just a matter of what breed it cropped up in. :shock: People who breed small pet rabbits tend to call them frosties...probably because it sounds better to potential customers.

Meat breeders seem to be more inclined to call them ermines, and usually eat them instead of selling.

If I'm talking to someone overseas, I'll call them frosties though, because they might already be calling our himi color ermine.

 

[akane]

The terms are used interchangeably. People talking about the actual genes involved tend to say ermine more often. That's really the only thing I've seen about the name. Most ND people I talk to call them all frosty or frosted.

 

[Dood]

It is not necessarily Rufus but other dark and light modifiers found in chinchilla (and all) rabbits.

My purebred AmChins are on the dark side as they are supposed to look like chinchilla the rodents but my mix breed chinchilla coloured kits range from a very light grey, like the kit on the right in the picture, to the proper darker chinchilla colour - the nearly white versions of frosty/ermine would likely come from these parents while a more heavily marked frosty would have a darker based heritage

 

[Prisma]

Sable frost has the dark shading on the ears rather than an overall light shading. I believe akane explains it best as far as what they are geno wise. A good frosty/ermine show wise gives almost the appearance of white all over but with light tick, some can have a little darkening at the points but sable frosts have tons more shading/color. I've had frosties dq'd for being too dark Course with any thing agouti, it can very greatly from light to dark markings....so there's lots of differences as already said in other posts.

I did a quick google, and found the below picture. While the site says its a sable chinchilla, it looks more like a sable frost.

 

[HendricksHearth]

I love ermine/frosty, but just to confuse the matter a little more, lop folks might refer to it as a frosted pearl and angora folks may simply say pearl.

 

[akane]

Angoras use ermine. The frosted pearl in angoras is what we generally call sallander. They are self colors instead of agouti chinchilla based. aa chd* ee with b and d to determine base color. I'm not sure what the genetics are for frosted pearl lops.