Email Received tonight

[ladysown]

I run an ad on kijiji offering animals for a species appropriate diet (basically offering raw food to dogs) I run it through an email I rarely use because of the "interesting" folks out there.

This is the ad:

For those who feed their animals a species appropriate diet, I breed rabbits and guinea pigs and at times have stock I cannot sell as pets or breeders and are not needed in my herd. These rabbits I offer them as culls for feeders. Firmly believing that all animals have a right and a need to eat a species appropriate diet I will sell these culls to you the raw feeder.

Non-medicated herd. Only healthy animals sold.
Sizes range from newborn to adults at 8 lbs.
I feed a diet based on pellets, but also give additional such as garden waste, grasses, hay, apple branches and various greens.

ALL animal are sold dead and frozen.

most animals sell for $2/lb/live weight as whole, entire animals. If you require any additional work to be done, the price increases. I can sell animals whole or semi processed (for animal consumption only).

For those who have issues with rabbits and guinea pigs being used as feeder animals, that's what happens with these animals in the wild, it's part of what is called the circle of life. They are a multi-purpose animal.

This is the email I received

I opened the ad assuming you were selling or giving away leftover feed that would be going to waste - not slaughtering animals to feed to others! If you haven't heard, that's how diseases like mad cow disease occurs. How absolutely disgusting of you.

Your ad refers to it as the "circle of life".. sure - it's what happens in the WILD. You're breeding them, raising them, caring for them, providing them a home, then chopping them up into pieces and selling them.
What is wrong with the human population.. seriously.

This is my response

Thank you so much for caring enough to email me with your concerns.

I hope that your caring extends to the courtesy of listening to another viewpoint.

Species appropriate diet. Cats, snakes and many other animals depend upon MEAT in order to survive. Dogs do best when fed MEAT. That's what they do, that's what they are.

What make a rabbit or cow any different? Both are animals. Both are can be used as a meat product. Or is that you are used to your meat coming well sanitized from the meat market? In todays world a great many people aren't aware that their steak was indeed once part of a cattle beast, or that the veal they eat comes from a calf, and goat meat does indeed come from a goat. I'm not sure how aware and educated you are in these matters.

What makes that cat or dog or snake less valuable than the rabbit? OR makes the rabbit any more valuable than the cat or snake or cow?

Wild or domesticated it doesn't change what the animal needs biologically. I just encourage people to feed a biologically appropriate food. And that is a raw food diet. That is how much I care about animals under my care or under the care of others. I want them cared for in the best possible way, and for many animals...it's not being fed kibble which contains a great many products they don't need. You know those ads on TV with the dog saying don't feed me like a rabbit? That's because a dog needs MEAT... not corn or grain fillers, actual real meat.

And just like people (who should eat a less processed, more natural diet) so should the animals under our care. They should eat a more natural, less processed diet.

Do you eat meat at all?
Do you wear leather at all?
Do you use medications at all?
What about your clothing...is it totally synthetic?
Wear any perfume, use makeup at all?
Do you brush your teeth?

A whole host of products are made using animal products....what makes one use of an animal any better than the other?

Please do additional research and make sure you know all your facts before reaching out to attack another person. And make sure you stay consistent.

If it's awful to me to safely and considerately make an animal useful to other animals, then it's also awful for you to make use of an animal in any way shape or form other than strictly as a companion animal.

Cheers.
have a lovely day.

 

[Secuono]

Lol at uneducated and mislead fools. People need to be doing real research before opening their mouths, er, working their fingers.

 

[hillbottom]

interesting

it amazes me how very insulated some people come across

 

[andyva]

This person has the audacity to ask what is wrong with the "human population". A rabbit does naturally to a clover the same thing a dog will do naturally to a rabbit. Some people would make Darwin scratch his head.

 

[Mickey328]

I'm impressed! I don't think I'd be able to keep my cool the way you did...kudos! Oh, and you're absolutely right, of course

 

[Miss M]

That was a Most Awesome Response. :hooray:

 

[rawfeeder]

Great response! Not sure I could of composed myself as well as you did

 

[3mina]

Kudos for an honest forthright polite response to an idiot

 

[carebear]

:yeahthat: :up: :clap: :clap2:

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

putting something like that in public ,, you will get response like that. YOu really have to watch what you say.. I dont deal with the public unless i have too. Your way of thinking is different from there way .. No matter what you say even tho you are right. ... Those petty people :evil:

 

[ladysown]

and the continuing saga

Email received

Thanks for your reply. I have done my research because I've actually been vegan for over 6 years now, and vegetarian for 1 year prior. My entire wardrobe, makeup ect. all comes from companies who are vegan and do not test on animals. I've never fed animal to my animals and they've all lived a happy normal life with no medical problems as vegetarians. I can understand your viewpoint as the "biological" viewpoint, my perspective is humans can live vegetarian, or even better vegan, and have less health concerns due to that diet than the average meat eater.

I've never believed, nor will I ever, that we, or our pets, require to eat meat that animals have suffered through death to provide. If the animal is wild, sure it's a way of life, it happens. If the animal is a "pet" why not have them vegetarian, their not going through the normal life cycle of hunting and killing meals, their having it provide by, usually, uneducated people.

my response

Thank you for your response.

I am glad to hear that you are consistent with most things in your life. You haven't mentioned what might happen in the event of declining health or need of medical support. Much of that is based upon animal use as well.

But humans are omnivores which gives us more options in life... many animals are not.

For instance.. snakes cannot be fed a kibble diet. Cats require meat, in particular they require enzymes located in the brain and heart of animals. Dogs fed a kibble diet often run into health and behaviour issues, have poops bigger than they need to and also don't decompose well meaning TONS of fillers in there and often have lazy digestive tracks. Attempting to feed reptiles a kibble diet leads to their death.

Given those differences...how can you say that one animal is more important than another? And that in essence, by complaining about a service I provide, is what you are saying. Snakes, reptiles, cats and dogs are more important than a prey species such a rabbit.

You eat vegan because you believe it's the best thing for you. That's fine and good for you. I've read research that tells me that a vegan diet long term is not healthy for people - not enough healthy fats, not enough B12, and not enough overall variety being the big part of why long term it is not sustainable. I hope that it turns out differently for you. Eating such a way according to my research is unhealthy, but that where one's research leads to differing conclusion and that's okay.. everyone is different right?

I do suspect that we'll need to agree to disagree.... I can respect your choices, do me the courtesy of respecting mine as well as a great many other people. Forced compliance to one point of view does not make for a healthy society. Insulting folks who think differently does not make those people (that you've just unnecessarily insulted) uneducated. It just means that the research has led us in a different direction.

Cheers. Always good to be challenged by another viewpoint. Helps to keep the brain sharp.

Though I word my emails and ads carefully I don't think that we should always have to be careful and politically correct about what we say. By doing so we encourage the naysayers to attack us, because they are NOT careful about what they say. Why should people have to run and hide from those that oppose them when they are not doing anything illegal? It's not right. I will always do my best to counter people in a respectful but straight-forward manner, insisting they respect my choices based on my research just as they demand that I respect their choices based on their research. I may not always word it as well as someone else might, but one hopes that another person will also be thinking in a considerate and kind manner. I've only met a few people who care not for the person they attack (in such a way that they attack the person not the ideas they differ on) and those folks I simply choose not to correspond with.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

you both will not see eye to eye on this kind of subject. So i wouldnt keep going back and forth

 

[mystang89]

It sounds like she/he calmed down from their previous attack stance.

 

[Marinea]

Fantastic exchange Ladysown.

I agree with Mary Ann- opinions will likely not be changed. So many people can see only the validity of their own view, they are incapable of granting even the possibility that other views may be worthwhile. It's like they grow and learn to a certain point, and then say "That's it. I'm good." and their mind closes to any future ideas.

 

[ottersatin]

LadySown,
you just keep on Truchin!
No need to worry about what others who have absolutely no experience
and travel through life with a closed mind and blinders on their eyes.
There is no way people who travel in a veritable bubble of delirium
could ever catch the drift of the deeper meaning of life.
You have spoken volumes with just a few short posts.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[andyva]

I always like to point out to vegans that most vegetable, cereal and fruit sources are often grown and harvested with mechanized equipment. Then I point out what happens when a combine encounters bambi, thumper, or any other cute little forest creatures. This is outside of the animals that are outright targeted by the crop producer, to protect his crop. These people are eating food that came as a result of the death of animals, whether they want to admit it or not. Synthetic clothes and the materials they are created with cause pollution which is detrimental to or kills animals. (Think oil spill). If they want to be truly vegan, grazing naked on all fours is about the only way. You are correct, no doctor visits either!

Telling them all of this will make no difference beyond making you feel better. It's not that they are stupid, they just believe very strongly in so many things that simply aren't true.

 

[Happy]

Good exchange. Of course, the vegan is going to stick with woo-propaganda instead of an educated approach to the issue.

The fact-check nazi in me, however, can't overlook the B-12 blunder: B vitamins, including B-12, can be easily obtained in any vegetarian diet because they're produced by a bacterium in the soil. The reason that veggies tend to end up "short" on these vitamins is that they're most often veggies due to "ethical" and "sanitary" concerns, so they wash all the dirt off of their food. While eating "non-organic" food (an actual impossibility) should be washed due to pesticide residue, foods not shot to hell with chemicals should NOT be washed, as this eliminates all the good gut flora that give people their B vitamins.

 

[ladysown]

thanks for those facts Happy, I appreciated learning them.

and andyva - hadn't even considered that aspect though as a farmers daughter I know it to be true.

 

[Random Rabbit]

Thank You Ladysown for the ability and tact You are able to show and respond to disagreeable messages ! There have been many times that i would dearly luv to respond... but i cannot get all the rebuttal thoughts to come out as clearly and concisely as You do. It is a Gift to be able to engage a person who disagrees vehemently with one's views.

 

[mystang89]

From my limited experience of vegans I've found that they generally don't like or approve of any killing. I'm sure there are the exceptions but I haven't met them yet. I normally like to point out that since they don't like killing anything they shouldn't be eating vegetables because they are killing a plant. When they say that is absurd I say it's the same principle as killing animals for their meat to live. I think by that time they understand that my point of view won't change and stay quiet, which is how I like most people, quiet.