Dried grass as baby bedding? :)

[Easy Ears]

Hey guys!
Say, I was wondering, since I heard that babies can nibble on the things around them from about a week old...would it be ok to have them in a nestbox with dried grass???? I really like it, because it traps the fir momma pulls, so it doesn't float away, and it is softer than hay,(And doesn't have all the dust that hay has) so it is really good bedding! (And before you say this I will just answer it: YES I MAKE SURE THE GRASS IS COMPLETELY DRIED OUT, SO THAT IT IS NOT MOLDY!)
I just get the grass from clipping my lawn (My lawn has been pesticide and fertilizer free for over 7 years, and we have LOTS of big earth worms.) with big hedge clippers (And no, I do NOT used mowed grass) and I let it sit in the sun bagging it every night, and laying it out to dry again in the morning for weeks. I didn't notice the babies eating it when they were old enough to eat hay. I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't be a problem, and wanted to get a second/third/fourth/fifth ....etc. opinion. Haha. Tell me what you think!

 

[Zass]

I wouldn't try it with my own kits.

I know another breeder who just lost a whole litter to bloat and diahrea, and the only thing "off" I could find with her whole setup was that she was using dried lawn clippings as nest box material.

 

[akane]

Lawn grass contains a lot more sugar than mature field grass for hay. You can plant a common hay grass, brome would be a good choice in many places, let it grow near waist high and cut just before it goes to seed. Then it can be used for both nest boxes and adult food depending how you dry and store it. The more sunlight the browner and brome is higher fiber with a tendency to go brown so it's not as commonly used alone as feed hay. That property makes it less likely to go bad and a safer food than high sugar grass. It also remains soft when brown.

 

[Miss M]

I used to feed dried St. Augustine grass clippings. I can't remember if I stuffed nest boxes with it. I never had any problem with it, though.

As posted by Zass and Akane, your mileage may vary.

 

[akane]

Lots of people have blamed cut lawn grass for problems with small pets to large livestock. All sorts of reasons have been debated. Sometimes it's fine and sometimes it's not. I've never had a problem with fresh handpicked grass but that was mostly for guinea pigs who are far more durable when it comes to greens.

 

[Zass]

Lots of people have blamed cut lawn grass for problems with small pets to large livestock. All sorts of reasons have been debated. Sometimes it's fine and sometimes it's not. I've never had a problem with fresh handpicked grass but that was mostly for guinea pigs who are far more durable when it comes to greens.

I didn't know that grass clippings sometimes caused problems with large livestock too.

I agree that guinea pigs are a lot more durable. When I was a kid, I used to put my guinea on the grass and just watch to see which greens she favored. Then, I'd look them up. That is actually how I started learning about weeds like plantain.


It's probably a good thing I never had a rabbit as a kid.
They often don't take that kind of dietary experimentation quite as well.
I think maybe the real problem with rabbits is that mild gi upset can result in rabbit death way too fast.
Kits and weanlings are by far the most vulnerable. I really hate losing kits, so I just don't take any chance with them.

 

[akane]

I've mostly heard of goats having problems with large amounts of grass clippings even when on pasture. I think someone reported problems with a horse but I believe it was on dry lot.

 

[Easy Ears]

I know fresh grass can create problems....but dried grass???? It wouldn't have the bloating effect would it??
What do you guys use as bedding????

Oh, and any tips on dirty babies noses? (Besides cleaning them haha. )

 

[Zass]

Babies don't usually get dirty noses, so I've never had to worry about that.
Are they having respiratory problems?

.I know fresh grass can create problems...but dried grass????

Your free to try it, and please do report your results to the rest of us. I just don't experiment like that with my babies, because I don't easily handle the loss. I do believe there is a chance they can bloat and die from it.

What do you guys use as bedding????

I use straw for my nestboxes. If I don't have any straw on hand, I'll use hay.
I usually have timothy or orchard grass on hand for the rabbits. I've never put alfalfa in a nestbox either.
I've never really used anything I wouldn't normally feed to weanlings as nestbox material, because they always nibble some of it.

 

[akane]

Layer of pine pellets, thin sprinkling of shavings to even out the pine pellets and top with an amount of hay dependent on temp.

 

[Easy Ears]

Ok, thanks! Huh...that's weird...cause in the last litter, I had to clean my babies noses every night, cause they were dirty.
So Zass, you just use timothy hay for bedding, if your out of straw? Where do you get your straw? So it's ok for the babies to nibble on the straw? Wouldn't it poke them??

 

[Zass]

Ok, thanks! Huh...that's weird...cause in the last litter, I had to clean my babies noses every night, cause they were dirty.
So Zass, you just use timothy hay for bedding, if your out of straw? Where do you get your straw? So it's ok for the babies to nibble on the straw? Wouldn't it poke them??

Lots of rabbit breeders use the pine pellets or wood chips to absorb moisture like Akane mentioned.

The straw doesn't poke the babies because the mothers build their nests carefully and line it with lots of fluffy fur. After the kits are furred out, they just aren't bothered by it.
The babies can nibble it and it causes no harm.

I prefer the straw to the hay because the does are less likely to eat it, it doesn't absorb moisture so the material stays dry longer, and because the straw provides better insulation when it's cold outside.

All that said, I have timothy in my nestboxes right now, because storing two separate bales is problematic with my current setup. I'd rather have hay in my nestboxes, than have my rabbits go without hay so that I could store straw.
But...I'm going to have to figure out a place to put a bale of straw before winter sets in. I like to line their beds with straw to give them a place to sleep that is insulated and up off of cold wire.

I buy my straw from local feed stores or farmers. We usually pay $4 or $5 /bale. Timothy actually costs a bit less, at about $3.50 / bale. It really helps to shop around at the smaller local places.

 

[squidpop]

In what way are the babies noses dirty? I've never had kits with a dirty nose.

Maybe the reason some livestock have problems with lawn clippings is mycotoxins. I've read that some species of lawn grasses have more mycotoxins in the roots and seed heads than pasture grasses.

Whether its good to use the dried grass in the nest might totally depend on what species of grass it is.

 

[JessiL]

Well-dried grass? Absolutely no mold or other impurities? That's exactly the same thing that I have been using for a year, and seems to be the same as grass hay.

My "dried grass" was cut with a scythe and so wasn't bruised by a lawn mower, but still, I don't see how perfectly dried lawn clippings would be any different than grass hay. I am keeping my dried grass in a large, covered pile (stacked under an overhead cover, not covered by a tarp in a pile) and so far it's working great in substitute for straw in nest boxes. Anyway, I cut the grass with the scythe, raked it into rows to dry, then raked it into a different row to dry on the other side, and then collected it. It's stable as a table. If your dried grass is similar, I don't see why you shouldn't use it.

Looking back at the other posts, perhaps grass species is important. My "grass" here in northern Nevada is a mixture of various fescues, Kentucky bluegrass, perhaps orchard-grass, and then at least 3 species of legumes. None of these seem to bother rabbits when fed to them, especially in dried form. And I keep 3-4 rabbit tractors on pasture at a time, almost never have problems with them (note I did have a weird problem with nursing kits during the height of summer this year).

 

[Dood]

I don't see how perfectly dried lawn clippings would be any different than grass hay.

As stated by Akane - clippings are very concentrated in simple sugars - 2 inch lawn grass clippings have practically no fibre but the SAME amount of sugar as 6 inches of older grass that is mostly fiber and starch.

Hay is even more mature and cut just before the seeds mature to maximize protein levels but prevent the seeds from dropping off during the harvesting process.

 

[Easy Ears]

Zass: "I know another breeder who just lost a whole litter to bloat and diahrea, and the only thing "off" I could find with her whole setup was that she was using dried lawn clippings as nest box material."

Who is she? I would REALLY like to talk to her. Is she on this website?

Babies don't usually get dirty noses, so I've never had to worry about that.
Are they having respiratory problems?

Not that I can tell... ?

I use straw for my nestboxes. If I don't have any straw on hand, I'll use hay.
I usually have timothy or orchard grass on hand for the rabbits. I've never put alfalfa in a nestbox either.

Doesn't alfalfa cause bloating? I'm wondering now...if it was the dried grass, instead of the alfalfa that killed most of my last litter.....?

Post by JessiL » Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:53 am

Well-dried grass? Absolutely no mold or other impurities? That's exactly the same thing that I have been using for a year, and seems to be the same as grass hay.

My "dried grass" was cut with a scythe and so wasn't bruised by a lawn mower, but still, I don't see how perfectly dried lawn clippings would be any different than grass hay. I am keeping my dried grass in a large, covered pile (stacked under an overhead cover, not covered by a tarp in a pile) and so far it's working great in substitute for straw in nest boxes. Anyway, I cut the grass with the scythe, raked it into rows to dry, then raked it into a different row to dry on the other side, and then collected it. It's stable as a table. If your dried grass is similar, I don't see why you shouldn't use it.

Looking back at the other posts, perhaps grass species is important. My "grass" here in northern Nevada is a mixture of various fescues, Kentucky bluegrass, perhaps orchard-grass, and then at least 3 species of legumes. None of these seem to bother rabbits when fed to them, especially in dried form. And I keep 3-4 rabbit tractors on pasture at a time, almost never have problems with them (note I did have a weird problem with nursing kits during the height of summer this year).

Ya, just lawn grass. I cut it with big hedge clippers, so it is not bruised. I live in Washington. I'm not sure what kind of grass I have...just normal lawn grass....how would I find out what kind it is???
All my rabbits don't seem to interested in eating it dried....but I know there is a chance the babies could nibble on it.

Post by squidpop » Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:26 am

In what way are the babies noses dirty? I've never had kits with a dirty nose.

Maybe the reason some livestock have problems with lawn clippings is mycotoxins. I've read that some species of lawn grasses have more mycotoxins in the roots and seed heads than pasture grasses.

Whether its good to use the dried grass in the nest might totally depend on what species of grass it is.

How would you find out what species of grass you have?? It's just lawn grass!
Just dirty noses...like crusted dirt in their nose flaps. I thought it was just some poo poo's.
The nest box looked pretty clean. I guess this next litter, I'll just use timothy hay, and see if that solves the problem.

Post by Zass » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:17 pm

The straw doesn't poke the babies because the mothers build their nests carefully and line it with lots of fluffy fur. After the kits are furred out, they just aren't bothered by it.
The babies can nibble it and it causes no harm.

I prefer the straw to the hay because the does are less likely to eat it, it doesn't absorb moisture so the material stays dry longer, and because the straw provides better insulation when it's cold outside.

All that said, I have timothy in my nestboxes right now, because storing two separate bales is problematic with my current setup. I'd rather have hay in my nestboxes, than have my rabbits go without hay so that I could store straw.
But...I'm going to have to figure out a place to put a bale of straw before winter sets in. I like to line their beds with straw to give them a place to sleep that is insulated and up off of cold wire.

I buy my straw from local feed stores or farmers. We usually pay $4 or $5 /bale. Timothy actually costs a bit less, at about $3.50 / bale. It really helps to shop around at the smaller local places.

My doe isn't too 'motherly.' So I don't think she would build the nest right. Won't the dust from the timothy hay leaves be bad for them? ONLY 3.50 a BALE FOR TIMOTHY HAY?!??!?! WHERE DO YOU LIVE????? I pay $10 a bale for timothy!!
What do you guys think about hand-feeding? I did it with my last litter (Held the momma down while the babies drank) so the runts would get enough to eat. (And I wiped each one of them with a rag, to make them pee after each feed.)
And I also hand fed them, because my momma rabbit seemed to ignore the babies.

 

[Zass]

Who is she? I would REALLY like to talk to her. Is she on this website?

She is, but she doesn't post much and isn't a daily visitor. I won't share her name.

Doesn't alfalfa cause bloating?

Have you ever read the ingredients of your pellets? Chances are the main ingredient is alfalfa.

I pay $10 a bale for timothy!!

Hay prices are different all over the place. Even here, I could pay almost $20/ bale for alfalfa from TSC (with WAY too much powder to be useful), or I could pay $3.00 from a dairy in NY. It REALLY REALLY pays to shop around.

Avoid dusty hay if at all possible.

I'm not sure what you expect your mother rabbit to do.

They are to build a nest and pull fur.
They are to have the babies in that nest.
Then, they ignore their babies at any time except for feeding, and most does prefer to nurse when you are not watching.
Most does will also fuff and re-arrange the fur on the nest to keep the babies covered. This is also something they prefer to do when you are not looking.
They will lick the kits for a few seconds when nursing.
It is not regular grooming like a cat would do.

In which area was she failing?

 

[akane]

Organic alfalfa sometimes more clover off land treated with trace minerals for $10 a 50+ lb bale. We've been using it for the past 5 years and as our only hay the past 3. Haven't had a single case of bloat. I try to use softer sections for the box and/or shake extra leaves in. We did use straw a few winters but I just can't get clean straw. It's always dusty, mildew smelling, and even from my best hay source there were sections of the straw bales clumped together with still damp soil. I've tried 3 sources and at best I can use 1/3rd of each bale.

 

[Miss M]

My doe isn't too 'motherly.' So I don't think she would build the nest right. Won't the dust from the timothy hay leaves be bad for them? ONLY 3.50 a BALE FOR TIMOTHY HAY?!??!?! WHERE DO YOU LIVE????? I pay $10 a bale for timothy!!
What do you guys think about hand-feeding? I did it with my last litter (Held the momma down while the babies drank) so the runts would get enough to eat. (And I wiped each one of them with a rag, to make them pee after each feed.)
And I also hand fed them, because my momma rabbit seemed to ignore the babies.

I'm not sure what you expect your mother rabbit to do.

They are to build a nest and pull fur.
They are to have the babies in that nest.
Then, they ignore their babies at any time except for feeding, and most does prefer to nurse when you are not watching.
Most does will also fuff and re-arrange the fur on the nest to keep the babies covered. This is also something they prefer to do when you are not looking.
They will lick the kits for a few seconds when nursing.
It is not regular grooming like a cat would do.

In which area was she failing?

:yeahthat:

Because they are so low on the food chain (everything eats rabbits), one way a doe will protect her kits is by ignoring them except for feeding time. They aren't like cats at all, which will be found with their kittens quite a bit, grooming them and everything. The doe will go in with the kits once or twice a day for a few minutes, and the rest of the time, she will act like they don't exist. This is not being a bad mother; this is being a normal bunny mom.

You shouldn't need to handfeed kits, unless they are showing empty bellies for a couple of feedings. Handfeeding is a great option to have for the kits that need it, but if they have full tummies, they don't need it.

You also don't need to stimulate them to pee. This was the thought for a long time, that you had to do this if you had orphaned or abandoned kits. Then some of our members realized that the doe is never in there grooming them enough to get them all to pee. The current thought is that it is the action of the wiggly kits against each other that provides this stimulation. You should need to help out only if you have a litter of one or two kits.

 

[akane]

If kits need to pee it doesn't take much. Just pick them up and it will come out. The people and things baby bunnies have peed on. My akita just sniffs their butts and gets a wet nose. :lol: