Doe possibly breed same day she kendled need advice

[bunny love]

Has anyone had a doe get pregnant the same day that she kindles a litter? If so what was the outcome for the current litter? The morning that my Doe kindled her litter I came out to find her in the bucks pen that is next to hers :shock: . There is a 3 foot internal fence that separates the two and the only thing that I can figure is she jumped or climbed the fence, as the gate was still latched. The first litter happened because my grandkids left the gate unlatched. If she is in fact pregnant again can her first litter survive without her at only 4 weeks? They will be 3 weeks tomorrow. They are nibbling hay and oats. Will that be enough? I haven't seen them eating pellets yet. 4 weeks just seems too young to be weaned. Not to mention, how hard it's going to be for her to have back to back litters . Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MaggieJ]

It's not ideal, perhaps, but in a colony does frequently have back to back litters and the kits do just fine. You'll probably have to separate the young'uns from mama just before she kindles again, unless the cage is huge. She is likely weaning them already . . . Have you noticed her trying to avoid them when they try to nurse? She may get a little snippy with them if they are persistent.

This situation should not be not life-threatening for the first litter. I once had a kit that was weaned abruptly at 17 days. He took a little longer to reach full size, but apart from that he was completely normal and had good health. If they don't start eating pellets soon, we'll have to figure something out to fix that, but I expect that once they can't get mama's milk they'll start. I didn't feed pellets, so I'm not sure what to suggest with regard to diet. Goat's milk may be a useful supplement, but I've never done that so I can't really advise.

Important: Make sure the kits have access to water. A shallow is easier for them than a bottle. If you are using a bottle, either lower it to their level or put a brick in so they have a place to sit while they drink. With a sudden end to their nursing, they can be at risk of dehydration if they can't easily get water.

You know what happened, don't you? Some does have a very strong desire to mate right after kindling. This gave her the motivation to climb or jump the gate. Better fix that before the new kits are born, or it could happen again.

In the interests of the older kits, it might be best to leave them in the cage they are used to and just remove the doe to another cage. That would also give you extra time to block that gap so this doesn't happen in future.

 

[akane]

Probably. I know many were pregnant within days to a week after giving birth often several times in a row. I was colony raising so the group of does were with the buck 24/7 for most of the year. Majority I didn't breed in winter because few could make a good enough nest for potential -30F winters. If they aren't losing weight or pulling themselves bald to make excessive nests I don't worry about it. Kits wean fine at 4 weeks and mine that didn't have chicken waters in the colony did fine on bottles if allowed easy access to mom's food and water as soon as they could get out of the box. I quit giving some any milk replacement at a little over 2weeks and eating solid pellets shortly after when the doe developed mastitis. I had a creme d'argent doe that was such a pain to not let her breed she had back to back litters pretty much year round for 3+ years. 8-11 kits a litter and never lost one except that one outbreak of cocci in the colony probably included some of her kits. She made awesome winter nests and would rip dividers down and start fights until she managed to get to a buck so as long as she stayed in good condition besides some slightly scruffy fur when making well stuffed nests in winter I left her with one buck or another. I've had some netherland dwarf though that took months to recover weight and regrow fur after a litter so it depends on the rabbit. The more they are bred for meat production the more likely they will produce lots of litters a year without problem.

Rabbits can climb well over 3'. The more solid you make the barrier the easier it is to climb too. I had netherland kits that weren't even weaned climb 3' and fall into the colony around the cage. I figured I could just finish putting a top on it the next day and oops. Some rabbits can probably jump more than 3' without even having to climb. Best to either put a top on everything, put an inward slanting section at the top, or use flexible wire at least 4' up. They can't wrap their toes around the wire like we can fingers so if the wire wiggles back and forth or is angled inward they'll fall off. Like trying to keep your feet on a ladder that leans backward. The same idea is used to make cat proof fences and at zoos because even with more curved claws they can't climb upside down so if the slant is too high to reach the top edge from the ground most animals not designed specifically for such climbing can't get over it.

 

[Dood]

It happens, my kits are weaned between 4-6 weeks anyway so it's not a big issue in my herd

Potential Problems ...
-the doe looses too much body condition and cannot produce enough milk for the second litter
-the first kits cannot tolerate getting weaned at 4 weeks and suffer enteritis
- the doe gets aggressive with the first kits close to her birthing date and/or after
- the older kits hog all the milk and the new litter starves

 

[bunny love]

Thank you everyone for your replies! Maggiej, Yes. I believe she has began weaning the little ones. She runs from them anytime they approach her or lays flat on her belly... :lol: Last night I placed a small bowl of pellets in the area where they hang out the most, and this morning most of the pellets were gone. But mom could have eaten them. I have seen the kits drinking water from moms crock, so that's a plus. My rabbitry consists of 4 8ft.x 8ft runs that are connected to each other by a fence and a gate. Each bunny( 1 doe and 3 bucks, thanks to the sex change fairy) has their own run. The doe has never attempted to get with the buck in the past so it didn't cross my mind to have a taller fence between them. Akane, I will now extend the fence all the way up to the celling :roll:. I have 2 bucks though that refuse to stay separated, no matter what I do, so I quite trying. Oh well gives me an extra cage for somebunny else :mrgreen:. Dood, I've been feeding her oats, boss, alfalfa hay, cheerios, and pellets. She also gets time in the grass run daily and I throw greens from the garden in each day as well. I think I will separate the first litter from her on day 28 or 29. and keep an eye on them. Hopefully I won't have to deal with enteritis. I weighed each kit last Friday at 2 weeks and they all weigh about half of a pound. I'm going to weigh them again today and see if they are continuing to gain weight. I will continue to monitor them. Hopefully all will go well with them, and the new litter. I feel more at ease knowing that at least they have a chance. Once again thanks for your helping out a newbee.

 

[michaels4gardens]

good luck-- I have no experience with this, - in all my years of rabbit raising I have not ever had to deal with this [as far as I know] but, I always over-build my cages... so "escapes" are very rare...

 

[Preitler]

Well, I had that happen once, came home, put the doe in the garden so I can check the nest - didn't notice the buck had torn out one of the grates on his hutch window... - I guess he did notice the doe giving birth and got super horny, he never did something like that before, 30 seconds were all they needed...
There wasn't any problem with the first litter of 8 after separating them a few days prior kindling. 4 weeks is ok to wean in such a situation, . The kits need to be separeted because they would trample the nest and raid the milk buffet.

There were only 2 kits in the second litter, the doe coped well with all that.

 

[Ghost]

Link to follow up.
http://rabbittalk.com/update-more-popples-t32930.html