Doe not feeling well

[Stormy]

Unfortunately my partner and I didn't exchange notes about one of our 6-month old does, an American Blues, until this evening after the vet is closed. What I took for calm and chilled out this morning, turned into an all day affair of not eating when my partner fed her later in the day, or when he gave her carrot tops. She hasn't been moving much or interacting with us or her sister. She is happily co-housed with her sister, and normally they are bright, perky, active little rabbits. We put them out to graze almost every day, but her pen has been in the same place for a week, so no new plants there. She has the same food pellets, but the bunny hay is a different source, all the rabbits have been eating it for the past 5 days, and she gets fresh vegetables. She isn't eating or drinking and when I called the breeder I got her from she recommended giving her flavored water, which I put Emergen-C into for electrolytes and am using a syringe to try to get some water in her - a lot is just exiting her mouth or pooling in her dewlap, but some is getting down. I am worried about losing her and I'm not sure what else to do. There are NO other symptoms. I was debating whether to bring her inside for the night, where its warmer, but it might be stressful with the unfamiliar noises of a household and away from her sister. (Plus the buck is a housepet and/or housepest and I wouldn't want him to stress her out - normally she's excited by his company) The breeder mentioned it could be an intestinal blockage, and mentioned a vet might give a laxative - does anyone have any household laxative suggestions for what might be safe? Would Olive oil be a laxative? I'm not sure what to do, being freshly back to raising rabbits after a 25+ year absence. I'm so disappointed after raising her for the past 5 months to see her be sick when we've been giving them the best of care. Your help and insights are appreciated!

 

[skysthelimit]

I just had this problem, my pregnant doe went off of her food last Weds. I gave her pineapple and pineapple juice for digestion, syringed Gatorade. You can give probiotics, and the cat hairball remedy and nutri drops. My doe started eating hay and drinking, but she aborted the entire litter, five Sunday morning and one today. But atleast she is safe and eating.

 

[Stormy]

Thank you Skysthelimit, I appreciate the suggestions. I was wondering if cat laxative/hairball remedy would work ok for rabbits. How do you administer the probiotics? I did not know that about pineapple - right now she's not eating anything at all. I have been giving her the syringed water for the past hour and finally put her back in her cage. I'm hoping she is still with us in the morning when I can try more things, or take her to the vet.

 

[ladysown]

I've heard of people giving cat laxative to bunnies...but I don't know enough about it to recommend.

Giving pineapple often works well. Fresh is better than canned. And Snapple is supposed to be really a good incentive to drink.

 

[Cattle Cait]

Pineapple works good. Try putting sugar in the water, that'll entice them to drink.

 

[skysthelimit]

Thank you Skysthelimit, I appreciate the suggestions. I was wondering if cat laxative/hairball remedy would work ok for rabbits. How do you administer the probiotics? I did not know that about pineapple - right now she's not eating anything at all. I have been giving her the syringed water for the past hour and finally put her back in her cage. I'm hoping she is still with us in the morning when I can try more things, or take her to the vet.

Hopefully she is ok, syringe Snapple, Pedialyte or Gatorade. Use very little hairball formula, and if you get the probiotic, get the stuff in the tube for goats, squeeze out just a lickful.

 

[Stormy]

We took her into the vet today, of course they don't know what is wrong with her, only that she's tender in the gut when examined. They gave her fluids and some kind of medication that stimulates the bowels. We're syringing pineapple juice (as suggested here) and baby food. They also suggested mushing up pellets and syringing that in. Laxatone is what they recommended we find for rabbits for a laxative, as it doesn't have cod liver oil in it, but unfortunately living way out in the country don't have a place nearby. So, $122 later, we'll see if all the TLC will help her pull through... and with her intestinal-stimulating meds and force-feeding. The vet suggested I pull her in at night where its warmer. She is a good little rabbit I hope she pulls through. Will keep you posted so hopefully others can learn from it too
Although I wonder, is it that some rabbits just don't thrive and live to be a year old? It just seems so odd to have a perfectly healthy rabbit get sick for no apparent reason. And her sister, identical conditions, doing just great.

 

[ladysown]

if she does get better I will caution you NOT to use her as a breeder. You'll just be perpetuating the issue. Seriously. As you've noted.. her sister is fine, she is not. which tells you something about the overall health of her.

You very much, even though it's difficult, want to breed rabbits that are as healthy as you possibly can. And that means breeding from strong, hardy stock.

 

[Stormy]

Thanks for your input, Ladysown. If you have a prize doe that gets sick you just put her down instead of help her pull through? I can't help but wonder if she could have picked up a parasite or something from the grass field she grazes on (along with the deer or other wildlife) and not have it be specifically a genetic/hardiness issue. I also wonder if the cold weather that suddenly came on has something to do with it - cold nights, even though she's had her sister to snuggle up with and we wrap up their cage at night with burlap and tarps to keep the wind out and make it as warm as we can. I wonder if maybe it got just too cold for them, with the balmy weather we've had for some time now... although the breeder I got her from raised her rabbits outside too. Its puzzling.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Thanks for your input, Ladysown. If you have a prize doe that gets sick you just put her down instead of help her pull through? I can't help but wonder if she could have picked up a parasite or something from the grass field she grazes on (along with the deer or other wildlife) and not have it be specifically a genetic/hardiness issue. I also wonder if the cold weather that suddenly came on has something to do with it - cold nights, even though she's had her sister to snuggle up with and we wrap up their cage at night with burlap and tarps to keep the wind out and make it as warm as we can. I wonder if maybe it got just too cold for them, with the balmy weather we've had for some time now... although the breeder I got her from raised her rabbits outside too. Its puzzling.

I don't think that is what she is saying at all. If her sister is not sick and she is, that tells me that her immune system is not as strong and her digestive system is prone to issues. I would not breed that into my herd either. I would use the sister that is healthy. What exactly is it that makes her a "prize"?

 

[ladysown]

if she is a prize doe... or one worthy of being pet out (so nice temperament, well behaved, easy keeper) what I do is support her in getting better.

IF she gets better and continues to do well for at least three-four weeks post recovery I will pet her out. IF in the meantime a breeder wants her I will explain what happened and they make a choice as to whether they want her or not but I offer no guarantees.

IF she does not get better with the care that I give (I will not vet a rabbit but I will provide good care) then I will cull her.

The issue remains for you.
Her sister is fine, she is not. ERGO she does not have as strong of a system and therefore not something I want to breed into my program.

Let me give you my real life example.

BEFORE I focused on breeding for health everytime the seasonal change hit I'd lose rabbits... usually an entire litter (one year I lost three in about two weeks), sometimes three or four adults. They would stop eating, they'd just have issues. I'd fight to save them... so I got oodles of practice in saving rabbits that go off feed. And then I'd breed them. It was an unrelenting cycle. THEN I learned about breeding for health.

NOW>> i get a seasonal change or have stressors hit.. I rarely lose rabbits. OR if I lose rabbits I can trace it back to.. I loved thus and such buck so I kept him and this one has thus and such rabbit's immune system. I still lose the odd rabbit but the odd rabbit is a whole lot better than losing entire litters or losing three or four adults due to seasonal changes or silly stressors.

Therefore I will always promote breed for health FIRST.. make all other considerations secondary because with time...the rest comes.

My protocol for keeping rabbits: health...make it through weaning without ANY assistance from me. make it to breeding age without having any sign of issues. no days off feed, no freaking out if I come into the rabbitry. Breed, have your kits, do your job. Do that you stay. If you don't.. you leave. AND if it's a significant issue...your kits all leave too..even if they are the nicest, prettiest, friendliest kits I've got.

I will breed and maintain a healthy herd because losing kits to weaning entropathy hurts my heart too much and I just don't want to EVER go there again.

 

[skysthelimit]

if she is a prize doe... or one worthy of being pet out (so nice temperament, well behaved, easy keeper) what I do is support her in getting better.

IF she gets better and continues to do well for at least three-four weeks post recovery I will pet her out. IF in the meantime a breeder wants her I will explain what happened and they make a choice as to whether they want her or not but I offer no guarantees.

IF she does not get better with the care that I give (I will not vet a rabbit but I will provide good care) then I will cull her.

The issue remains for you.
Her sister is fine, she is not. ERGO she does not have as strong of a system and therefore not something I want to breed into my program.

Let me give you my real life example.

BEFORE I focused on breeding for health everytime the seasonal change hit I'd lose rabbits... usually an entire litter (one year I lost three in about two weeks), sometimes three or four adults. They would stop eating, they'd just have issues. I'd fight to save them... so I got oodles of practice in saving rabbits that go off feed. And then I'd breed them. It was an unrelenting cycle. THEN I learned about breeding for health.

NOW>> i get a seasonal change or have stressors hit.. I rarely lose rabbits. OR if I lose rabbits I can trace it back to.. I loved thus and such buck so I kept him and this one has thus and such rabbit's immune system. I still lose the odd rabbit but the odd rabbit is a whole lot better than losing entire litters or losing three or four adults due to seasonal changes or silly stressors.

Therefore I will always promote breed for health FIRST.. make all other considerations secondary because with time...the rest comes.

My protocol for keeping rabbits: health...make it through weaning without ANY assistance from me. make it to breeding age without having any sign of issues. no days off feed, no freaking out if I come into the rabbitry. Breed, have your kits, do your job. Do that you stay. If you don't.. you leave. AND if it's a significant issue...your kits all leave too..even if they are the nicest, prettiest, friendliest kits I've got.

I will breed and maintain a healthy herd because losing kits to weaning entropathy hurts my heart too much and I just don't want to EVER go there again.

If I hadn't been the obvious cause of my doe getting sick, she would go too, despite the fact that she is my only chin show doe. I've done it with dogs, chickens and now rabbits, easy breeder, easy keeper easy whelper. Grow or you go. Act sweet or become meat. I don't keep anything I can't show or breed. Makes for less work and less heartache in the long run. Not saying that this is your situation, but if you have any doubts, cull hard.

 

[Stormy]

Unfortunately she passed away last night. The vet felt we should have done surgery right away. I am not so sure though, I just weighed her sister, there was a 2 lb. difference between them, when they used to be pretty much the same size. We'd noticed over the past month or so that one had grown much larger than the other - either that or the one who died was losing weight - we are not sure. She was 8 lbs but her sis is 10 lbs, which I think is closer to the expected weight for an American Blue at 6 months. I guess we will not know what happened or why.

 

[skysthelimit]

Unfortunately she passed away last night. The vet felt we should have done surgery right away. I am not so sure though, I just weighed her sister, there was a 2 lb. difference between them, when they used to be pretty much the same size. We'd noticed over the past month or so that one had grown much larger than the other - either that or the one who died was losing weight - we are not sure. She was 8 lbs but her sis is 10 lbs, which I think is closer to the expected weight for an American Blue at 6 months. I guess we will not know what happened or why.

Very sorry to read this. By any chance, did you take a look? not many people can do a necropsy on their own, but perhaps that might shed some insight on her cause of death.

 

[Miss M]

So sorry for the loss of your doe!

 

[ladysown]

sorry to hear you lost her. always hard to lose good rabbits.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss, Stormy. Surgical intervention may have helped, but the implication that it is somehow your fault that she died because you didn't fork out hundreds of dollars at the drop of a hat is not acceptable.

I gather from your comment that you "will not know what happened or why" that you didn't do a necropsy. It is not easy to do to an animal that you consider a pet and friend- it feels disrespectful to them somehow, desecrating the perfection of their form. Believe me, I know, since I just did the very thing to our foundation sire, and have also buried some rabbits before him because I could not bring myself to butcher them. But looking to the future health of your animals it is the responsible thing to do. It is also the loving thing to do- think of the pain and suffering you will save future generations if you have the answer to the cause of current distress.

I have found that the rosy picture that has been painted of a rural lifestyle does not match reality. Life is harsh, and many hard things are asked of us if we are to be responsible stewards. I think the rewards outweigh the challenges and there is more joy than sorrow, but the attendant growing pains are not easily ignored. It is not a lifestyle for the faint of heart.

 

[Stormy]

Thanks Skysthelimit & Miss M. We're sad. No we didn't take a look - ew. We are still in the theory stages of raising rabbits for meat. Well, I admit to lots of butchering experience 25 years ago but opening up our pet is a tad bit gnarly.
I still can't imagine a rabbit who gets to graze in the field almost every day would develop an intestinal blockage. I am wondering if there could be anything wrong with American Blues, being a breed on the brink of extinction. The breeder was super kind and offered me a very inexpensive replacement doe. However, I don't think she'd necessarily get along with the remaining doe, the way those sisters did. I am wondering if I should wait until she is old enough to have babies and just keep one of her daughters so there is a more loving relationship. The sisters loved each other. Talula, the one left, is just distraught. It has seemed like she is mad at us for "taking" her sister, as we took her into the house while she was sick. She is so upset she jumped out of my arms last night when I was carrying her back to her cage, and ran away into the wilds and it was night. Fortunately, we caught her, I think she discovered the error of her ways and came running out of the woods and back towards her field pen - thank goodness! I thought she was fox food for sure and our rabbit project had just come to a premature end. Hopefully got that out of her system...