Do All Blue-Eyed Rabbits Carry the Vienna Gene?

[Rabbits by Accident]

Pretty much that's my question

I keep trying to find out, and I think I am not asking the right question. So, I have a beige (NOT WHITE) rabbit with sable points (maybe that's what you call them) - darker ears, nose, feet, tail. And he has BLUE eyes.

So - is this Vienna Gene? and does this mean ALL the kits in the litter carry the Vienna gene?



Thank you for all your help!!

-Liz

 

[Alaska Satin]

No, blue eyes are not only derived from the vienna gene. They can also appear in blue rabbits (two copies of the recessive dilute gene essentially waters down all pigment), or in chinchilla rabbits.
Your bunny looks like a dilute version of a frosty or ermine, which is basically a non-extension chinchilla rabbit (like a red is a non-extension chestnut). Chinchilla is essentially a chestnut with a gene known as chinchilla dark <cchd> which blocks most or all of the expression of the yellow pigment, resulting in the beautiful silvery chinchilla rings with black ticking. When the rabbit also carries two copies of the non-extension gene <ee>, most or all of the black pigment is blocked as well, leaving the rabbit pale (white, ivory or beige). Ermines often have darker points and ear edges because the non-extension gene doesn't effect the shorter hair as much; sometimes ermines can look like himilayans ("pointed whites") but without the pink eyes, while other ermines can appear completely ivory or white without any black smut at all.
Ermines usually have brown eyes, but in the case of blue-eyed ermines, not only do they have chinchilla and the non-extension genes, but they also have two copies of the dilute gene. I have one of these bunnies in my barn right now.
So this particular bunny gives no clue at all about whether the litter carries the vienna gene. Some or all of its siblings will probably carry the chinchilla gene, and some or all will also very likely carry both dilute and non-extension (since your pictured bunny is both double dilute and double non-extension, meaning each of the parents carry at least one copy of each of the those genes).

 

[Rabbits by Accident]

No, blue eyes are not only derived from the vienna gene. They can also appear in blue rabbits (two copies of the recessive dilute gene essentially waters down all pigment), or in chinchilla rabbits.
Your bunny looks like a dilute version of a frosty or ermine, which is basically a non-extension chinchilla rabbit (like a red is a non-extension chestnut). Chinchilla is essentially a chestnut with a gene known as chinchilla dark <cchd> which blocks most or all of the expression of the yellow pigment, resulting in the beautiful silvery chinchilla rings with black ticking. When the rabbit also carries two copies of the non-extension gene <ee>, most or all of the black pigment is blocked as well, leaving the rabbit pale (white, ivory or beige). Ermines often have darker points and ear edges because the non-extension gene doesn't effect the shorter hair as much; sometimes ermines can look like himilayans ("pointed whites") but without the pink eyes, while other ermines can appear completely ivory or white without any black smut at all.
Ermines usually have brown eyes, but in the case of blue-eyed ermines, not only do they have chinchilla and the non-extension genes, but they also have two copies of the dilute gene. I have one of these bunnies in my barn right now.
So this particular bunny gives no clue at all about whether the litter carries the vienna gene. Some or all of its siblings will probably carry the chinchilla gene, and some or all will also very likely carry both dilute and non-extension (since your pictured bunny is both double dilute and double non-extension, meaning each of the parents carry at least one copy of each of the those genes).

That is fascinating. Would you think that his coloration will turn out to be rare? The same parents are due to kindle this week, maybe I'll get another one

 

[Alaska Satin]

If you've bred the same two rabbits, chances are pretty good you'll get another; however, genetic prediction is purely statistical so theoretically you *could* get an entire litter of ermines, or you *could* get none at all.
The coloration is relatively rare mostly because people in the US don't breed for that color, though they are accepted in Europe. At the moment, I don't think it is a recognized variety in any ARBA breed, but breeders are working on getting the Czech Frosty, a breed with ermine coloration, recognized by the ARBA. Also I know at least one angora breeder who is working on ermines in hopes of getting them recognized. But since ermine is the result of recessive genes, once you start breeding ermines, especially to each other, you'll get more and more of them. Depending on what other genes your breeding stock has at the C locus, the chinchilla <cchd> can lurk behind full color <C>, or dominate/partially dominate the others (sable <cchl<, himi <ch> and REW <c>). (Incidentally, the C locus is a tricky one with lots of partial dominance issues so if you have chinchillas, I'd recommend against breeding them with sables, and vice versa, since it just messes up both colors. The other C-series genes can coexist fairly well.)
What colors are the parents, and do you have pedigrees for them? Depending on the breed, I'm guessing that in addition to blacks and chestnuts/coppers, you'll find chinchillas, blues and fawns/reds/torts in the background, although those genes can "hide" for a long time so may not show up on a 3-generation pedigree.

 

[Rabbits by Accident]

If you've bred the same two rabbits, chances are pretty good you'll get another; however, genetic prediction is purely statistical so theoretically you *could* get an entire litter of ermines, or you *could* get none at all.
The coloration is relatively rare mostly because people in the US don't breed for that color, though they are accepted in Europe. At the moment, I don't think it is a recognized variety in any ARBA breed, but breeders are working on getting the Czech Frosty, a breed with ermine coloration, recognized by the ARBA. Also I know at least one angora breeder who is working on ermines in hopes of getting them recognized. But since ermine is the result of recessive genes, once you start breeding ermines, especially to each other, you'll get more and more of them. Depending on what other genes your breeding stock has at the C locus, the chinchilla <cchd> can lurk behind full color <C>, or dominate/partially dominate the others (sable <cchl<, himi <ch> and REW <c>). (Incidentally, the C locus is a tricky one with lots of partial dominance issues so if you have chinchillas, I'd recommend against breeding them with sables, and vice versa, since it just messes up both colors. The other C-series genes can coexist fairly well.)
What colors are the parents, and do you have pedigrees for them? Depending on the breed, I'm guessing that in addition to blacks and chestnuts/coppers, you'll find chinchillas, blues and fawns/reds/torts in the background, although those genes can "hide" for a long time so may not show up on a 3-generation pedigree.

Well, I breed for meat, and sometimes sell some to other breeders or for pets, so I don't really care about the colors, but pretty ones are more interesting I did get a premium price when I sold him, so more would be good LOL

Thanks for all the info, it is really fascinating!