Cruddy rear end?

[FourRingCircus]

I was out doing a water round (summer is here, blech :evil: , I hate summer) and noticed one of my does looked grungy under her tail. I looked under her cage and her poop looked normal to me, as far as I can tell (maybe a bit smaller?), but she has what looks/feels like poop caked into her vent area. I stuck her back end into a bucket of water and was able to loosen most of it up (we had a storm coming in so I was trying to do what I could quickly). What could cause that? What else should I do? <br /><br /> -- Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:31 pm -- <br /><br /> Could it be a symptom of vent disease? All the does in that particular batch are pretty cruddy... one has some creamy discharge and an odor. I have some Penicillin G in the fridge - should I go ahead and start a 3 week round of treatment?

 

[ladysown]

if you have a batch of does that are cruddy ...not keeping themselves clean... you need to consider

1. are they worth keeping?
THEN
2. are they worth medicating?

then and only if the answer is a resounding yes... treat them.

IF you have any hesitations...turn them into a well cooked meal.

Things to consider... if the bunch of them are messy...
1. is it your housing or feed causing the problem? (you know this if all or most of your rabbits are messy... if it is only a select one or three....then it's the rabbits)
2 is it a genetic predisposition?
3. do you want to keep rabbits that have a messiness about them and the concern it causes?
4. do you want the fuss of medicating them and making sure they don't get sick from being medicated?

if it's a feed or housing issue...correct those issues and then see if they recuperate.

 

[Zass]

Might be related to feed, parasites or bacteria.
Mold toxins, e-coli, cocci, worms...Hmm...vent disease doesn't usually cause poo buildup, right?.
I've never encountered it.

 

[FourRingCircus]

It might be feed issues - I am currently transitioning them over to a new brand (from what the previous owner was using)...

What should I look for in a feed if that is the issue? I just use a semi-locally milled brand that I get at the F&S place our friends own. I'm not even sure the percentages of things. I want to say it's on the lower end for protein... <br /><br /> -- Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:28 pm -- <br /><br /> I am pretty sure it's not the housing - they are in brand new wire cages so there isn't anywhere for anything to build up...

 

[Zass]

Doesn't sound like housing then...
How old are they?

 

[FourRingCircus]

2 are around 1 1/2, the other 3 around 3 years. I would have to look to see which one is what age (I just got them last week).

 

[Zass]

Just got them? Hmm, yeah, they might have had their digestion thrown off by stress or a feed switch.

Are you also feeding good quality grass hay? It can be a huge help with transitioning.

The one oozing white stuff sounds worry some... Vent disease is treated with an antibiotic, I think, but since I've never had it and don't typically use antibiotics with my herd, so I can't help with that.

Broad spectrum antibiotics like penicillin are usually a last-ditch-nothing-else-will-work option in rabbits, since anything that kills off their GI bactera can be deadly too.

It's never given as a just-in-case measure.

 

[FourRingCircus]

I use Winner Feeds out of Mocksville, NC here is what is on the tag (the best I can read it, one side is cut off a bit)

Crude Protein (not less than) 15.0%
Crude Fat (not less than) 3.0%
Crude Fiber (not more than) 16.0%

Ingredients:

Grain products, plant protein products, process grain by-products, forage products, vitamin A & D, seedling oil (I think? all I can see is "eedling oil"), riboflavin supplement, salt, calcium carbonate, di-calcium phosphate, manganese sulphate, vitamin b-12

The owner said he can get me a different brand with 16.0% protein that is a bit more expensive. I think what I am getting now is $14 and some change for 50 lbs? I think around $16 after tax.

-- Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:18 pm --

I don't know what quality the grass hay is, but I know it's fresh... just came out of the field last week. Our house was built in a hay field and they still mow and bale what's left around us.

There was only one that was a little dingy when I got them, and she said it was because she liked to lay where she pooped (in a wood and wire hutch so there was a little build up leading to some staining along her hip area). <br /><br /> -- Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:24 pm -- <br /><br /> Soo.... based on that... what should I be looking for in a pellet? Grass hay? I really want to just get settled with some good rabbits darn it! And I actually was until that blasted one with snuffles came through and messed everything up :evil: .

 

[Zass]

It's probably not the brand of pellet that matters so much right now.. as the fact that changed and they have yet to adapt to the new feed and their new situation.

Rabbits really need consistency, so the more you switch brands, the more likely things are to go wrong. Older rabbits can usually take it well, but I've seen weanlings die from enteritis triggered by a change of brands.

If I'm worried about cocci or parasites...I usually just butcher a young one and look inside.

I know that sounds super harsh, but I mainly raise meat rabbits that will be processed anyway..

 

[ladysown]

so these are rabbits that you just got?

change of feed is most likely the culprit AND they might be hormonal due to the change ERGO messy poops.

The doe oozing stuff I'd be taking back to her previous owner and saying "HEY, help me deal with this". If you don't want to do that... clean her up. Dust her with cornstarch and remove her far from the others. Wash yourself up, wash your clothes before going back to the rest. Feed and deal with her last.

The rest I'd get them cleaned up a bit, give them a good dusting with cornstarch, and then make sure they have hay, continue to change their pellets and give them a week to get sorted out.

If you have a buck in the midst and you plan to breed them, you might want to think about doing so....if only to settle their hormones down.

 

[FourRingCircus]

I will have to see if DH can help me with butt baths... It was really hard to try and hold the front end up and wash the back end by myself. What part of giving rabbits baths poses a health risk? is it if their heads get wet? I have seen a couple things mentioned on here. Is there any proven ways to really get that area good and clean?

When I posted pics of them it was noted by members on here that they were a bit... chunky. Could that be inhibiting their cleaning abilities? Should I go ahead and get the feed she was using, or continue to try and transition them?

As for breeding - I put him in with two of them last week and they were not at all interested, but the other two lifted for him just fine. Is it worth the summer heat risk to go ahead and let him make another round? Looking at July-ish kits if it is successful...

 

[ladysown]

chunkiness can inhibit their cleaning abilities.

If they aren't interested, and are a bit chunky I'd be feeding them less pellets and more grass hay and give them a way to do some forced exercise.

 

[FourRingCircus]

OK, chunkiness is definitely an issue! Her dewlap is so large she has to work to get to her front paws!! :x I can't imagine her rear end even being a possibility...

It looks like the ceco type rabbit poop is clogging up the area - any ideas what to do? I know to give her a bath, but preventative wise? Will the cornstarch that was recommended above keep things from matting up?

Also, how much feed? I am doing unlimited hay... is that OK? It looks like a couple of them are starting to have more hair come through... I am used to see two or three balls of poop connected, but I saw a chain of 5 or 6 dangling from one cage. How much is too much?

Always learning, right? :shock:

 

[ladysown]

I'd cut everything way back and then put them all on an exercise program. they need to get rid of that fat.

BUT if they are that fat I'd be culling them. It's HARD to get fat does thin again as they hide their fat within.

 

[EnglishSpot]

When I was thinning out a doe whom was disinterested in mating earlier this year, I fed her unlimited hay, minimal pellets, and apple cider vinegar water. I made her run around the yard and she learned to dig in snowbanks. It took about a month to get one pound off her (no starvation diets for rabbits) and she was ready and willing to breed. Here's the link: new-zealand-red-fatty-t23572.html?hilit=Fiona

She had 9 in her first litter for me; she'd only had 6 with her prior owners, who fattened her like a pig. After having and nursing the babies, she continued to slim down to a healthy weight.

 

[FourRingCircus]

Tonight I finally attempted to tackle a butt bath for her... oh my, was it nasty! I had to stop midway through because she sprayed me with poopy water and it ended up in my eyes (somehow got under my glasses) and IN MY MOUTH! . And oh the smell. There was a large marble (like the ones that you use to shoot the other smaller marbles) wad of... stuff... in her scent gland area. It was impacted (poop hair mixture??). I had to roll some of the skin back surrounding it to get it out. Pretty sure there is underlying infection. Did I mention the smell? :x I have no idea what to do at this point?!?! I wish I would have taken pictures of it to post here. Might see if DH can help me tomorrow....

 

[Susie570]

Ech... ok that sounds nasty. I'm glad you don't have maggots in there.
At least you got her cleaned up, no doubt it was too much for her to deal with. Poor bunny. :x

 

[akane]

If you have a good quality hay I would stop all pellets for any still having digestive problems. Feed just grass hay. Get a bucket just big enough for the rabbit and fill it with just enough warm water and I use plain dawn dish soap to cover their butts. They will often sit in the bucket fine with minimal restraint and you can scrub their butts periodically to loosen stuff without needing a second person or getting too much rabbit wet. A wet rabbit chills and dies easy. When I had to soak some younger ones I was putting them in my hedgehog room kept at 80F or they would shiver. Then you want to add small amounts of pellets back in as they improve and keep it at a minimum to prevent more weight gain. Long term you cannot feed just hay because the drying process removes important nutrients so if they aren't back on pellets after several weeks you will have to consider something else or culling them. Adding a mineral mix designed for other herbivorous livestock like horses or goats can give them a good diet for awhile longer. Eventually they will still be missing some vitamins found in fresh foods and added to pellets so it's a longer term but not forever diet. The people who feed pellet free on here also get a lot of forages from their yard and garden.

Weight is very hard to get off. If they will breed then keeping them bred helps the most. After you get them healthy. If they won't or can't breed it's probably better to just cull them because it takes careful feeding and increased exercise for months to really get anywhere.

 

[FourRingCircus]

I think it's going to take more than just a swish or two with my hand though. There is some serious gunk going on . I didn't have her in much water last night, but she was on her back in my lap as I tried to get things cleaned out and she jumped and twisted kicking an impressive amount of water around in the process. <br /><br /> -- Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:03 pm -- <br /><br /> Well, I had to cull the doe tonight. I was keeping an eye on things and just couldn't get her clean enough... I wonder if there was some kind of weird anatomical issue going on? Or if it was just from being so bad for so long... either way the poop kept building up in that extra flap of skin - it was really weird! Anyway, tonight I went to check on her and realized there were an unusual amount of flies around, especially since I had just moved them to the new area last night (not enough time for poop and pee to build up under the hutches). I started looking around and realized they were swarming more around her than anywhere else. Then I looked at their demeanors and all the others were laid back, relaxed, and she was tense, her eyes wide (almost like she was scared??) and she kept jumping. I picked her up and sure enough, maggots . The smell was horrendous.

I went ahead and butchered her - I don't know how the poor thing was alive! Her whole body was full of fat!! There was no extra room in her body cavity :x . I cleaned off what I could and put her in some cold water and there is an oil slick on the surface. I mean, I knew she was a chunk, but I had no idea it was that bad! Her liver was paler than it should have been, could that be from so much extra fat? The bladder was HUGE and what was in it wasn't clear. I know urine can be different colors in rabbits, but it was almost like it was separated, that some stuff had settled in it?

Is the meat still edible as fatty as it is? What should I do with it? I currently have it soaking in cold water in my sink...