could use some help from my fellow satin breeders

[SterlingSatin]

Have any of you who breed Satins had a BOB or BOV copper satin? I can't find a good copper specimen anywhere, even at shows, so i have very little idea of what i'm breeding for, except for the SOP's description. and the judge's opinions of my rabbits vary WIDELY. some say to dark, too light, too tan, too narrow banded, etc etc etc. i know its a long shot, but if you have a nice copper, can u post a pic of surface and ring color? i'd like to see how the standard is interpreted by others, since the judges around here don't seem to agree on it at all.

 

[Demamma]

I would love to see a copper satin. Bumping the post in hopes someone has a picture.

 

[SterlingSatin]

I would love to see a copper satin. Bumping the post in hopes someone has a picture.

seems as if we're not going to get much. here's some of my photos of coppers. all have showable color. all but the bottom rabbit is mine.

 

[SatinsRule]

Have any of you who breed Satins had a BOB or BOV copper satin? I can't find a good copper specimen anywhere, even at shows, so i have very little idea of what i'm breeding for, except for the SOP's description. and the judge's opinions of my rabbits vary WIDELY. some say to dark, too light, too tan, too narrow banded, etc etc etc. i know its a long shot, but if you have a nice copper, can u post a pic of surface and ring color? i'd like to see how the standard is interpreted by others, since the judges around here don't seem to agree on it at all.

Tater lost to a very nice copper doe at a specialty show in Emporia, KS in the spring of 2011. Kind of wierd to have a showing of satins that was competitive to begin with being won by a copper which was being pushed by a red, but that is what happened.

If you think it's hard to get a copper right and that judges' opinion vary on them, another one you need to check out sometime is reds. There is no other variety in the satin breed which you can safely breed into a line of reds which won't produce some serious problems over the near and long terms. With coppers, you have to cull hard and proceed with caution when breeding them with another variety.

Coppers are supposed to have a slate blue undercolor. That is straight out of the SOP. Watch what I am telling you, though. Judges will miss that as consistently as anything else on the show table when judging them. They will get so carried away with trying to judge their ring color that the undercolor will be overlooked, and it's a DQ on certain areas of the pelt.

They do the same stupid things with reds. If the animal has the slightest hint of smut on the edges of the ears, it will be the first one off the table, while the judge will completely overlook a white undercolor. Then there is a variance between judges of what the "ideal red color" should be.

 

[SterlingSatin]

oh i breed lots of reds SatinsRule. i often cross my reds with coppers to enrich the rufus factor in the intermediate band. but then any reds from that litter will be smutty. so its give and take. i love the reds, but wish there was a way to have the color without the texture. all my pure reds have very course coats, i've been told due to the pigment, and that kind of destroys whats so special about satins for me. i have reds out of red/copper with amazing fur, but a little lacking on pigment as you might imagine. they seem to do well on the table, as long as i keep the smut to a minimum.

 

[SatinsRule]

Yeah, and that smut on those reds is one of many areas where judges make completely inconsistent nincompoops out of themselves, too. I've alread indulged myself on why I feel that way, so I'll spare you from having to put up with me repeating myself ad naseum.

Coppers are an interesting variety, but not one I'd personally go nuts trying to work with. It's likely because my first ever satin back in 1978 was a red. I wish I had pics of him. He was from several generations of reds and had fantastic color. Look at a color pic of Secretariat sometime. That's what his pelt color was like. I'll always have a soft spot for the variety because of it.

Wanna know how unseriously judges take reds on tables at big shows? Nobody has won BOB satin at a national convention or NASS with a red since a man named Lou Slavens did it in 1959.