Colors that do best in shows

[WhWRabbitry]

I am wanting to add some show quality Mini Lops to our little herd this year.
A breeder told me today (when I was requesting oranges, lilac, chocolate)
that Chestnut and Steels do best on the show table. She said too many funky things go on with some of the other colors.
Is this true? For some reason I've never been overly fond of the Chestnut color but if there is truth to this than I would reconsider what color(s) I'm looking for.

Thanks for feedback.

 

[Prisma]

Other colors do better because they are worked on more...however that does not mean you can't find a kicking chocolate/lilac/orange. You just have to be patient and have a bit of breathing room in a budget as they will cost more than your "average".

 

[Celice]

any of the solid colors do really well. Black and blue see to be the easiest - Lilac and chocolate can touchy because of shade and eye color.

I've seen chinchilla mini lops do really well.

 

[Zass]

Genetically dominant colors are easiest to get, so breeders have to compromise a bit less in a steel or agouti program. When you are trying to line up multiple recessives...the temptation to chose the harder to get color(over type) increases.

 

[akane]

Black based colors generally are the easiest to make show quality. Although the banding of any agouti color can go good or bad depending what you breed together. I would not mix an orange with the chocolate and lilac. That's just gonna lead to poorly marked chestnuts the first gen and mess up the rest of the colors the next gen. You'll get torts eventually and I don't know what is approved for that breed or the details for breeding quality torts. If you want chocolate and lilac I would get a good breeding pair of blacks to cross your chocolates to the black line periodically in order to keep the color richer. I would only do self rabbits at first. Black, blue, chocolate, lilac and add others as you get experience, see more of those colors in show quality, and know what can be crossed. If you are patient and just keep an eye on what's available you can score that one awesome rabbit of a color you desire to base a color group around.

 

[Dood]

IMHO colour is a moot point in Mini Lops as it is only 5 points in the SOP with 10 for fur quality and the other 85 are on the conformation so the "colour crossing rules" recommended by most breeds don't really apply to MLops

ANY colour or shade or tone or ring pattern of a properly conformed Mini Lop is competitive - it just happens that the chestnuts and steels tend to have the best heads and bodies and it is not due to a preference for the colours by breeders.

 

[WhWRabbitry]

Wow, so many helpful responses! :thankyou: Much to keep thinking on!
I should clarify as far as the orange. The interest in the orange color was more for breeding with my Japanese Harlequin color doe. The lilac and chocolate I was thinking as a pair.
It sounds like Black & Chocolate would maybe be a better option. The litters could have
black, blue,chocolate, lilac - correct? Those are all the colors I'm drawn to.

I had previously considered a chestnut doe & broken black gold tipped steel that were available as a pair. The buck carried chinchilla and was from grand champion lines. The doe's mother was black and her father was a broken blue chinchilla. Her siblings were chinchilla. I don't know if they are still available though to still consider.

Right now though I'm having trouble finding any options for show quality Mini Lops anywhere near me!

I do appreciate the point Dood as far as in Mini Lops it only being 5 points. This will help me not be as overly concerned on the color - (which I tend to be) but look at the type.

What sites have you all found are most helpful for finding good quality rabbits for sale?

 

[Dood]

Although she hasn't been on for a while, Peach had some show winning Mini Lops - http://georgiapeachrabbitry.weebly.com

 

[dangerbunny]

Don't worry about proximity, you likely won't get your best rabbits that way (unless you get really lucky) find a rabbit show going on near you, you may have to do some driving. Find breeders who you think are great and are competitive in the breed. Even if they aren't attending the show you can often find transportation.

I'm lucky that there are lots of great Holland breeders in my state but I have rabbits from Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, and Pennsylvania. I have a super nice doe coming this weekend from Virginia.

 

[alforddm]

It sounds like Black & Chocolate would maybe be a better option. The litters could have
black, blue,chocolate, lilac - correct? Those are all the colors I'm drawn to.

Maybe, you won't get blue out of a Black x Chocolate unless both of them carry one copy of blue. If the black doesn't carry a copy of Chocolate you won't get any chocolate. Both blue and chocolate are recessive so require two copies to express.

__________ Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:31 am __________

If you could find a black and a chocolate that both have a lilac parent then you could get all the colors you want.

If you found a Black that carries both blue and chocolate and a chocolate that carries blue your outcomes would look like this.

Black carrying chocolate (DD Bb) 12.5%
Black carrying both chocolate and blue (Dd Bb) 25%
Chocolate (DD bb) 12.5%
Chocolate carrying blue (Dd bb) 25%
Blue carrying chocolate (dd Bb) 12.5%
Lilac (dd bb) 12.5%


That is assuming your rabbits are self (aa) and don't carry non extension.

 

[dangerbunny]

Also colors should be low on your list of priorities, finding good quality rabbits can be challenging with out adding in color. In Hollands people are always told to start with torts because that is where you find the best type, people are attracted to the flashy colors but without type you will never produce show rabbits. There is plenty of time to add in colors once you have good type established.

 

[WhWRabbitry]

I want to thank all of you again who have given so much time to give me good advice & information that I need to learn. You all are awesome!

I've been contacting different breeders, asking questions (many questions which I've learned from advice on here), and considering different options.
Color is no longer the priority for me. (Aren't you proud of me?)
That took me awhile to adjust to, since my pet quality Mini Lops are favored by people for all the different colors. (I can keep on with them separately and still enjoy the colors)

Right now a pair I am most interested in is a Chestnut doe and Opal buck - both juniors.
They share the same father. Does this matter at all? Does it make any difference with ARBA stuff?
They seem a good quality for me to start with. The breeder was so helpful in telling me what strengths & weaknesses she saw. Their father has picked up numerous BIS and a BOB at National Convention. The does Mom had several 1st place winnings.

Also has a broken Chestnut (brother to Opal above) that could be paired well with the Chestnut doe. So then I feel like I'm back to talking/picking between colors again... ugh.

 

[dangerbunny]

Pros and cons with line breeding (inbreeding) you will get more consistent results (smaller gene pool) so both the good traits and bad ones can be amplified.

The con I see with starting with a related pair is I wouldn't breed the resulting offspring back to the parents, but that's just me, maybe someone else with more experience line breeding can weigh in?

 

[JenerationX]

Genetically dominant colors are easiest to get, so breeders have to compromise a bit less in a steel or agouti program. When you are trying to line up multiple recessives...the temptation to chose the harder to get color(over type) increases.

:yeahthat: It's the same with dogs, horses, and I'd imagine any animal. If a color is rare, then a perfect specimen in that color is even more rare so breeders tend to forgive more faults, and you get an entire color segment of the breed that just isn't as strong as far as type goes.

 

[WhWRabbitry]

Pros and cons with line breeding (inbreeding) you will get more consistent results (smaller gene pool) so both the good traits and bad ones can be amplified.

The con I see with starting with a related pair is I wouldn't breed the resulting offspring back to the parents, but that's just me, maybe someone else with more experience line breeding can weigh in?

I hear what you are saying. Thanks. I am now thinking maybe better to not start off with two related. I know there are very differing opinions on it. I've read a lot of them here on Rabbit Talk. I don't have a problem with line breeding but I realize some of the people that may end up buying from me in the future may have a problem with it - so maybe best to just not go that route at this point...?

 

[Zass]

Pros and cons with line breeding (inbreeding) you will get more consistent results (smaller gene pool) so both the good traits and bad ones can be amplified.

The con I see with starting with a related pair is I wouldn't breed the resulting offspring back to the parents, but that's just me, maybe someone else with more experience line breeding can weigh in?

I hear what you are saying. Thanks. I am now thinking maybe better to not start off with two related. I know there are very differing opinions on it. I've read a lot of them here on Rabbit Talk. I don't have a problem with line breeding but I realize some of the people that may end up buying from me in the future may have a problem with it - so maybe best to just not go that route at this point...?

It's often stated that line breeding will bring out the best and worst in a line.
Recessive health problems do occur on occasion.

If you line breed and find out that your animals are carrying harmful recessive traits...you would need to be ready to deal with the consequences. Of course, it can happen with with unrelated animals as well.
Line breeding actually helps most of us identify and remove animals who carry undesirable traits from our lines.
It's a large part of why purebred rabbits tend to be a lot healthier than purebred dogs.

 

[WhWRabbitry]

Zass, those are good points. My concern is does it pose issues with people that are wanting to buy to show as far as them having personal objections to it - thus purchasing from someone else instead?

 

[3mina]

Serious buyers won't have an issue with it. Personally, I prefer linebred stock. It shows me the breeder is interested in what's hiding in their lines and dealing with it

 

[MamaSheepdog]

My concern is does it pose issues with people that are wanting to buy to show as far as them having personal objections to it - thus purchasing from someone else instead?

You wont run into that with serious show breeders- indeed, if they see a bunch of outcrossed lines they will wonder what in the world they are gambling on genetically.

It is the "pet" people that don't understand the value of linebreeding/inbreeding.

 

[dangerbunny]

Yup, too many rabbitry names on the pedigree is more likely to turn someone off, than repeat ancestors. Pedigrees are nice and helpful and all but I've noticed rabbit people tend to evaluate the rabbit in front of them first and look at pedigree second anyway.