Colors and Prices

[ButtonsPalace]

I have 7 kits (2 are Lionhead; 5 are SilverFox, all of them are purebred) I was wondering about coloring as well as pricing. Let's get color stuff first. Here's some pics of the kit in question. Also how much should I charge for them?
1.

 

[Dood]

This is a Siamese sable AKA black sable

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Trying to find a picture of one of these. Are you sure they are Siamese Sable? I should've mentioned this one is the Silver Fox.. I thought I had pics of the little Lionhead in question, it had an itch in it's ear that it couldn't seem to figure out, so it was spinning in circles trying to get it's foot close enough to it's ear. We were worried something was wrong so we wrapped it up so it couldn't spin anymore. It finally got the itch and we go it's still closed eye open and all was good, However I did forget to take pictures of that one. <br /><br /> __________ September 10th, 2016, 9:32 am __________ <br /><br />
From left to right if I had to guess I'd say Black, Lilac, Blue, Brown, Black. The very left kit is one very long stretched out kit.

 

[Dood]

What are the parents of this litter above?

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Unsure of mom's color but I would have to say she's a Blue and so is he. But Dad is a Black.. Here's the best pics I have for now


Well apparently I deleted my pics of dad?! Well either way he's black

 

[Dood]

I think the kits are black, black, chocolate sable, black sable, chocolate and black

It is highly unlikely they are purebred silver fox as sable is not an accepted colour in the breed

 

[Zass]

Sable isn't an accepted color, but, it has shown up in pedigreed stock before. I remember there being an old thread somewhere about surprise sable in SF.

Honestly, I'm not sure there are many lines of silverfox left that aren't saturated with crazy color genes.

Not that it helps much, without pedigrees, you can really only go by SOP for value, and if a rabbit does not meet SOP for any breed(for example, by being the wrong color), and it has no pedigree, then there would really be no way to prove it's a member of any specific breed.

Right now, even the correctly colored kits are too young to judge for breed specific traits, but if you do end up with any that conform to silverfox SOP (weight, fur length, body type, color conformation, etc) than you might be able to sell them for more than ordinary mutts.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Well both mom and dad and the other buck I got with them were supposedly purebred SF. Now this guy knew nothing about rabbits but had a paper with a bunch of notes about the rabbits. It wasn't in his writing and he said it was from the guy he bought the rabbits from but he had no name or number for the seller...
Both mom and dad meet the weight, and fur density.. So do their previous kits who look like them.. I have some older kits from them (I believe a Lilac, Chocolate, and Black) The black who was injured actually being one of the older kits.

Dood, lol, the first kit is one very stretched out long black kit lol. I looked at it 5 or 6 times completely confused until realizing the angle I saw and the angle the camera took weren't the same by far. There is 5 kits Black, Lilac, unknown, chocolate, Black) (I believe it's Lilac because I have a kit about a week older that was the same color although that one is a meat mutt..)* I really need to sit and take good pics of all my rabbits and figure out what color all of them are.*

So it's possible to get the black sable from an SF.. Could it be because Dad is black? If it is a Sable I'll probably keep and FC it and hope I don't get any more. The Doe will only breed to the one buck, but she's a great mom and very sweet, I need to go look up the specifics of a SF..

__________ September 11th, 2016, 9:07 am __________

Might I point out that his nose isn't darker in real life? He's one solid color baby? The one you guys are saying is a Black Sable.. I was really confused especially at first because when I ask about a rabbit color I go google what you guys say it is because I want an idea of what this bunny will turn out like. So I look up the Black Sable and am scrolling through pictures thinking about how none of these look right.. Finally figured it out.. My photo is making his nose look darker.. *Scrolling through endless bunny baby photo's to find good ones..
Ok here we go...
This is the litter of SF I got with the Doe and 2 Bucks. In total I got 6 rabbits that day (Turtle, Sailor, Papa Bear, Mootah, Lilac, and Coffee; Sailor got sick and has since passed but the other 5 I still have)
This is the day I brought them home.

Few Weeks Later they looked like this: (She's got more of a purple hue to her now in my opinion, This was at about 1-2 months? they are now 7 months)

Coffee had quite a transformation and definitely threw me through a loop with his coloring


He's more of a deep brown now, I'll take pictures of them today hopefully!! And then I'll post how they are all looking now at 7 months. Might even drag in Turtle now that she has fur on her back her photos will look better I hope this helps some in color deciphering. I'm so sorry about my lighting, I think they look darker because the photos are being taken from above them, so what your seeing is into the nose fur.

*EVIL LAUGHING* I DID IT!! I FOUND ONE!! I FOUND A GOOD PIC OF THE BABY I WANNA KNOW THE COLOR OF!!! I'M SO PROUD! AND I HAVE A BETTER PIC OF THE BROWN AND THE LILAC!!! <br /><br /> __________ September 11th, 2016, 9:12 am __________ <br /><br /> Here's the Lilac for a bit more color comparison The Lilac looks like a mouse gray but the other one looks darker and more blue.
I feel like it's a Lilac and Blue myself but I wanted confirmation and then took awful pics...

And then here's this super cute one I caught just in time of the little Brown one.

 

[Dood]

Sables change colour dramatically so Google pictures of adult sables will look nothing like day olds, or week olds or month olds

http://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/holland-co ... aded.shtml

I suspect Turtle is also a sable but quite dark and I wonder if the steel gene could be effecting the colour in her and her offspring

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Well the other buck I had was said to be a steel? I'm guessing that means they actually aren't purebred huh? Here's the issue I see with you saying they are Sables, when I look at my rabbits, I don't see any black on their face.


__________ September 11th, 2016, 10:24 am __________

I was looking at their characteristics and measured the fur to be over an inch (I stuck my finger in the fur to the skin and it went over my first knuckle. I measured and it was around an inch) All their fur stands out which explains why it was so hard to shave Mootah. (When I shaved him his fur would just lay flat no matter which direction I used it was ridiculous, plus it was sooo much and soo many layers to got through) They also fall within the weight range and temperament and from what I seen they fit the body shape as well *I couldn't get mom or dad to sit up right so I used one of the 7 month olds.*

__________ September 11th, 2016, 8:31 pm __________

Is this a Black Sable?


I myself think it will turn out like this...

 

[Zass]

I really haven't seen anything that would necessitate calling them mutts, and honestly, I'm not familiar enough with sables to be able to ID one as a kit.

If you have ones that match breed SOP, you can start keeping track of them, and maybe eventually have full pedigrees.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

Well the mom and dad match breed SOP and so do the Junior kits I have from them. I don't think there is any sable especially after looking at several pics of them... However I do wanna find out about this possible "Steel" gene. Or maybe that's actually a blue?! O.O

 

[Zass]

Steel can exist on black, blue, chocolate, or lilac, so just being one of those colors doesn't rule out steel as a possibility, as self hides steel and agouti steel can look exactly like self. :lol: Don't worry. TONS of pedigreed silverfox lines are soaked with steel genes, safely hidden by self genes. From what i've been seeing on facebook, steel colored crossbred kits crop up pretty much any time a SF is crossed with anything agouti.

There is a huge color range as to how much agouti pattern is hidden and how much shows, ranging for true-self-looking rabbits, ticked ones, all the way to almost-agouti looking animals. Lots of webpages like to quote "rules" for steel that the steel genes themselves seem to have little interest in following..

I don't see anything that jumps out as a visible agouti steel.

Sable genes may create an exception for the invisible-on-self rule, however. I'm really not sure of how sable interacts with everything.

Dood?

 

[ButtonsPalace]

View attachment 3

Is he a Steel or is he a Blue? I'm curious. I feel like this little kit is either going to look like him or mom.

 

[Zass]

Please carefully reread what I told you about steel.

as self hides steel and agouti steel can look exactly like self.

I think you are missing a crucial point.
A gold tipped steel doesn't look "steel blue," it looks like a ticked black, blue, chocolate, or lilac, depending on if it's genetically black blue chocolate or lilac based. Steel genes are at a completely separate locus than those color genes.

The kit in question does not look like any agouti based gold or silver tipped blue steel to me. Sable or sable steels are completely different than agouti based steels however, and I would not be able to ID a steeled sable kit, as I've never worked with them.

 

[ButtonsPalace]

All these colors are so confusing, however!! I found a good site that is explaining to me the different colors so maybe I'll understand <br /><br /> __________ September 14th, 2016, 2:34 pm __________ <br /><br /> BTW a little more on the Lionhead. It appears to be a chestnut? But there is like an orange strip around it? But maybe it's where the fur is thicker.. Can't wait till he gets a bit bigger.