Color help

[BelleVie]

Hello, I need some input on color because I'm stumped. I recently bred my harlequin Rex buck to three does in my colony to get a good kindle in before summer. One of the does is a black otter, and I'm a bit surprised by what her kits look like. I tried to look ahead of time at possible outcomes, so the torted otters in the bunch weren't surprising. The rest are some sort of agouti - I'm hoping someone on here can shed a light on what colors they actually are. If you could also explain to me the genetic cause of the result that would be appreciated!

 

[caroline]

the kits are chestnut [castor if Rex]. A_B_C_D_E
not surprising.
they probably carry "ej", if the harle is homozygous. Or they carry "e" non-extension if he isn't.
Some, or all, will carry "at"otter depending on is the doe is homozygous. If she carries "a" self then half will carry that instead.

 

[BelleVie]

Thank you Caroline. I thought castor, but they're all different shades so I wasn't sure. Can you explain to me why this outcome (castor) isn't surprising?

Also, I took a closeup of the darkest kits coat (which is why I thought castor) but I can't see the black tips that it says should be there for castor?

 

[caroline]

Not surprising because the harle is A_B_C_D_ej_
Which is all dominant alleles except the ej
crossed with black otter at_B_C_D_E_
all dominant except the "at"
thus when crossed, the dominants show up most
The different colors may be due to unknown modifiers
or more likely the effect of the dad's "not quite" recessive "ej" muddying the color.

Oh yes,if there are torted otters in the litter then I would suspect dad is
AaB_C_D_eje
and mom is
at_B_C_D_Ee

 

[Zass]

:yeahthat:

 

[BelleVie]

Great explanation, I really appreciate it. I'm new to color genetics and it's a bit of a challenge to wrap my mind around all of the possible combinations. That makes sense.

__________ Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:13 pm __________

So how would I determine if my doe carries self? What is considered the most recessive color/pattern combination in rabbits (to use to reveal the hidden genes)?

 

[Dood]

A REW that is genetically a solid lilac :doh: sable point TORT would be the most recessive coloured rabbit for the 6 more common colour locus = enen aa bb cc dd ee

If you wanted ALL the colour genes then a REW lilac sable point TORT that was also wideband, silver, Dutch, blue eyed white and pink eyed white = enen aa bb cc dd ee ww sisi dudu vv pp :mrgreen:

 

[BelleVie]

Lmao, sounds great -- where can I order one of those? :lol:

What's my most realistic option? Lilac?

 

[Dood]

Probably but if you breed a lilac with your otter and harlequins stock you will start to get unshowable colours just just for curiosity sake and the kits that are showable will be recessive for these colours and most show people DONT like surprises

Id stick with your black based rabbits and would not cross your otter to anyone but another self black or black otter

 

[BelleVie]

I know for a fact that my otter carries brown because her dam side is all chocolate. She also has lilac back in that line. So would it be ok to breed her to a chocolate self? I would like to get back to lilac eventually... <br /><br /> __________ Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:49 am __________ <br /><br /> I know for a fact that my otter carries brown because her dam side is all chocolate and chocolate otter. She also has lilac back in that line. So would it be ok to breed her to a chocolate self? I would like to get back to lilac eventually...

 

[Dood]

Yes, any self.

If her mother was chocolate then she will carry chocolate but if one of her grandparents was chocolate there is only a 50% chance she got the chocolate gene

 

[BelleVie]

Ok -- her mother was chocolate

 

[skysthelimit]

Otter in Rex is showable in all of the base colors, so if you really want that lilac, go for it. tri is also showable in all of the base colors too. My herd contains all of the base colors, but freak of nature that I am, have only gotten Black Otter kits.