Color guessing game (new litter)

[RootedLove]

Hey everyone, I am new here. I thought what better way to start off than posting my babies to see what your opinions are on color and of course updating as the weeks go by so everyone can see how it goes These kits were born last night (7/4/12) So brand new babies! They are Holland Lops. Sire was a broken orange and dam is a chinchilla. There are some interesting genetic contributions on both sides and I have tried to narrow down the most likely possibilities. I am pretty sure the darker kit is a chestnut but it is the lighter one that is throwing me. Sire is out of a brkn blue tort and brkn orange, dame is out of a sable chin and brkn chin. Both have a good bit of dilute through out their lines and interestingly the paternal side is full of harlequin, tri and magpie. So put your genetic calculators to work and let me know what you think!

Day 1-7/4/12

Day 3- 7/7/12

Day 5- 7/9/12

1 week old! 7/11/12

I'm thinking Blue Tort on the lighter one but it does seem to have dark points:

(Pushed an ear forward to show the darkening points)

 

[-HRanchito]

:mbounce: Congratulations! You only got two? Is that normal for hollands? All those colors make my head spin. Anything past selfs and dilutes boggles my mind. :stars: The light one looks a bit like a tort from the top down, but it might be easier once there's some fur.

 

[RootedLove]

I didn't think of it being tort with it being so light but now that you mention it, it could very well be. 2 isn't great but I would say it is fairly normal. I think 4 would be a good average for the breed although I know of a lady through a facebook group who's little doe had 13 and she only lost 2. I never heard of such a big litter in hollands. There were 2 DOA in this litter- peanuts. I am very happy with the two I have though. I bought the doe bred so I was a little concerned for the litter making it at all even though I took her pretty early on in her pregnancy. I have kept her inside the entire time to make it as comfortable a transition as possible. ANYWYAY! Quite pleased with 2 and hoping they stick and somehow contribute to the type I am looking for. Thanks for your input! I am excited to see the fur come in.<br /><br />__________ Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:21 pm __________<br /><br />Day 3 pics added

 

[skysthelimit]

check out this website. http://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/holland-colors.shtml


it looks a bit like a sable point to me, will be easier to tell by day 8. the other does look like a chestnut.

 

[RootedLove]

I keep looking at the pictures and changing my mind but I'm glad you brought sable point up because I can see where it could go that way and there are sable points on both sides of the lineage. Quite heavily through the dam. So fun to try and find out!

 

[MamaMandy]

Beautiful! I raise Hollands too, so I'll be interested in seeing continued pics of their growth! I'm expecting a litter next week out of my Holland doe that lost her first litter about a month ago. 7 stillborn kits...I thought that was kind of a lot, but 13 is crazy! I'm really hoping to get a few live ones this time around. So exciting! Congrats!

 

[skysthelimit]

I keep looking at the pictures and changing my mind but I'm glad you brought sable point up because I can see where it could go that way and there are sable points on both sides of the lineage. Quite heavily through the dam. So fun to try and find out!

That is the best thing. The Rexes are cut and dry, I know what colors they are when they pop out, very few surprises, after about 2-3 litters I have the genotype mapped out. hollands have more colors.

 

[RootedLove]

Congrats on your upcoming litter MamaMandy- 7 seems like a lot to me! So sad they were all stillborn I'm sure the 2nd litter will go better.

Sky- I went through the last 5 generations on sire and dam and tried to come up with genotypes to figure out what I would most likely get but there are still so many guesses! lol Right now I think they are:
Sire: AaBBCchl_DdeeEnen
Dam: AaBBCchd_DdEeenen

That is completely a best guess though and I could be wrong about a lot! I love genetics though- so fascinating.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

It may be a Siamese sable, they start out very silvery looking, and you definitely have the genetics for it although the odds are high for a sable point as well! lol

 

[skysthelimit]

It may be a Siamese sable, they start out very silvery looking, and you definitely have the genetics for it although the odds are high for a sable point as well! lol

I hope so I'm for either one. I so want a Siamese sable or a sable point. Or anything besides broken tort ! I have sable on both sides, but all I get are torts...

We will need new pictures soon. <br /><br />__________ Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:10 pm __________<br /><br />

Beautiful! I raise Hollands too, so I'll be interested in seeing continued pics of their growth! I'm expecting a litter next week out of my Holland doe that lost her first litter about a month ago. 7 stillborn kits...I thought that was kind of a lot, but 13 is crazy! I'm really hoping to get a few live ones this time around. So exciting! Congrats!

My hollands will be due on the 13th and 15th. I certainly hope I get something this time, these does are on try five.

 

[RootedLove]

Updated! I promise I won't be posting every other day for months lol. I think I'll do a 1 week one on wednesday and then start going weekly after that one. I feel like I can see the ears and nose and legs darkening which suggests sable point of some kind but the feet aren't dark? I would love to have a sable point out of this litter so we'll see! I'm 100% on the chestnut now. Can't see it being anything else. Good luck on getting the colors you all are looking for!<br /><br />__________ Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:15 pm __________<br /><br />Anyone have sable point and/or blue tort kit pictures they want to share? Breed doesn't matter

 

[skysthelimit]

blue tort

holland-lop-kit-color-t7608.html?hilit=%20holland%20lop%20kits

her at eight weeks. kit-picts-t8673.html It may be had to see the color, but she is blue in the places she should be black.

 

[ladysown]

the light one to me looks sable chin. I'll see if I can find a pic.

this one turned into a sable chin.

this one as well

I find generally speaking, if I have chestnut in the litter, the chin wills be either black chins or sable chins.

 

[skysthelimit]

ladysown--those are beautiful. What combinations are you breeding that give you chins and chestnuts in the same litter?

 

[RootedLove]

blue tort

holland-lop-kit-color-t7608.html?hilit=%20holland%20lop%20kits

her at eight weeks. kit-picts-t8673.html It may be had to see the color, but she is blue in the places she should be black.

I can definitely see a resemblance in color there. It has an orange cast to it in certain light but not as much as I see in yours as a very young kit- mine was very silvery. Boy did that blue tort turn out adorable though! I rather like the color personally.

__________ Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:08 pm __________

the light one to me looks sable chin. I'll see if I can find a pic.

this one turned into a sable chin.

this one as well

I find generally speaking, if I have chestnut in the litter, the chin wills be either black chins or sable chins.

The dam of this litter was out of a sable chin & broken chin...I didn't even think of that color for some reason but I can see that too! lol I need to stop obsessing over it and just wait it out. Love your sable chin though- beautiful rabbit. <br /><br />__________ Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:23 pm __________<br /><br />What about smoke pearl and smoke pearl marten? There are otter black on both side of the pedigree a little further back and with the tan/fawn on the belly/eye circles/ nostril it could go that way to right? Genetically speaking would those turn up if the at gene was more than a generation back?

 

[skysthelimit]

With the new picts, it's looking like ladysown sable chin. Can't wait to see more pictures. You all have some interesting colors.

 

[RootedLove]

Alright a new tidbit and an updated picture of just the questionable kit. The breeder I bought my doe from said she had a kit just like this before out of this doe and thought it was sable chin until 8 weeks, it is now a Squirrel. She has also had a frosty and chestnut in a previous litter. That means that the doe has to be carrying dilute, right? I also now know that the sire is indeed broken orange and is also a tri carrier. He has produced cream and brown eyed ermine kits in other litters so he is one interesting guy!

Obviously I could be wrong but that is where I am with it mentally right now! LOL! So here are some 11 day old pics of the baby in question:

 

[skysthelimit]

Yes, it is looking more and more like chin, so that's squirrel then. The broken orange carrying tri would explain why the color patches looked like tort to me.