Color/breeding question

[fuzzy9]

Mazy will be ready to leave quarantine, and be introduced into the rabbitry pretty soon, after her last round of worming. She'll have a week to settle in out there, and then I'm hoping to breed her. My goal with her is to improve size, bone, and meat by breeding her to one of my NZ bucks. My other goal is to carry on the black and white broken pattern to her offspring, pick a couple from each litter to raise up, and continue the improvements for meat, and black and white color pattern.

Mazy

My dilemma is that I actually wanted a broken buck, but I couldn't find one anywhere around here that I trusted to buy, and I have a doe. In order to continue to carry on the black and white, won't she need to be bred to black? What will I get if bred to white? She's 6 3/4 lbs exactly today, and my black NZ buck is 11 lbs, and my white NZ buck is 10 lbs. Is it really safe to breed her to either of these big bucks? My original thinking with wanting a buck, was it would be easier to breed the smaller buck to a larger doe, and not as safe to breed a large NZ buck to a small doe.

Can someone tell me if this is safe, or should I just keep looking for the buck I originally wanted? I could possibly find a smaller black buck to breed her to, easier than finding a broken buck.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Someone stop me if I'm misinformed, but since your NZ is a white then I assume albino? Heaven only knows what "color" he is under the white!!!! I bred my harlequin doe to a NZ and got a tonne of random agouti-style kits, heaven only knows what else he has in there. I'd say do a test breeding, see what you get.

 

[akane]

There are no true albinos. White animals with red eyes are called red eyed whites or pink eyed whites for that reason. In rabbits it's REW. The REW covers up all other colors so you could have a black rabbit under there and get all black rabbits or you could have a chestnut, blue, opal, steel.... no one knows what is under white until they breed white to something so a white might work fine or it might give you a bunch of not useful colors.

As to size I don't know how far different you can go in rabbits. In most animals the female determines the size of the offspring to the point you can breed up a fair amount and not have any problems. We also aren't talking about small breeds who already have problems giving birth and have stuck kits often. Large breeds don't suffer these problems anywhere near as often.

 

[fuzzy9]

Well, since I know zip about genetics, anything here is useful to me, so thanks!

I bred my white buck to a black doe, and got 50% black, and 50% agouti if that means anything.

 

[akane]

Then the white is not a self or black but some version of agouti. Probably a chestnut.

 

[-HRanchito]

Broken is dominant. No matter what, she will throw 50% brokens. Black is also dominant, so she will throw at least 50% blacks There will be no REWs if she doesn't carry the albino gene. Your albino has a color underneath his white -- there's just no way to tell what that color is. But since both black and broken are dominant, you're looking at 1/2 times 1/2 for broken black kits which is 1/4 broken black kits, at a minimum (not counting dilutes or anything that's weird)

HOWEVER -- if your REW has only sired black or agouti (not that he couldn't have some genes still hidden), he is probably BB, in which case you will be likely to get 50% agouti(phenotype), and 50% black(phenotype), so 1/2 black times 1/2 broken = still 1/4 broken black kits,

(others will be 1/4 broken agouti, 1/4 black, 1/4 agouti)
ALL will be albino carriers.

You might get a few chocolates or dilutes in there :thinking: But you would have to study the peds or just wait and see!

 

[fuzzy9]

Oh boy!! :slap: :lol:

So then my question still remains..........is it safe to breed either of my NZ bucks to this smaller doe? And if it is, then the why not just breed her to my black buck?

 

[Honorine]

Yes you can breed her to your larger bucks, even if she's just under 7 pounds. Its not recommended(at least not by me) to breed smaller breed 4-6lb does to a very large buck, for instance I wouldn't breed a Silver doe to a NZ buck, their narrower in body, and smaller, may cause problems. However with other meat breeds that are broad bodied its alright, have bred a Harlequin to a Flemish with good results. The more kits she has the better, more means smaller easier to pass kits, so breed her at least three times. Now for what your going to get, I'm assuming that she's a NZ cross? I have a broken black NZ cross here, just like your girl, bigger though, 8-9 lbs. Bred her to a NZW- and this is what I got- three steels, would have been silver tipped(chinchilla based) four ermines(fawn chinchillas) and the rest were cal marked. What does this tell us? That the buck is a genetic steel under the white, who carries non-extension. That the doe is not a broken black, but a broken self chin who carries extension, and is probably a Californian cross or has Cal behind her somewhere. Its been suggested to me that she could have a Satin Californian behind her, as that could account for the chinchilla gene, and the non extension as well. When your dealing with crossbreds, and often purebred as well you cannot tell what your going to get just by phenotype(what they look like) you have to breed them and try to figure out what their genotype is. I was quite surprized to get what I got out of this doe, steel is not really common in NZ's but it does show up here and there, and the ermines and cals were not what I expected at all. I was thinking blacks, chestnuts, REW's, it was kinda neat and annoying to have all these funky colors show up.

 

[fuzzy9]

Thank you for the info! I looked back at what I wrote down for her weight, and it was 6 lbs 14.2 oz, so she's just barely under 7 lbs. I don't really know what cross she is, so I'm not sure if she has NZ in her. I think I'd prefer to breed her to my black buck, and hope for more broken black, and black. He has the better body style of the two also. Can't wait to see what I get from her!

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

There are no true albinos. White animals with red eyes are called red eyed whites or pink eyed whites for that reason. In rabbits it's REW. The REW covers up all other colors so you could have a black rabbit under there and get all black rabbits or you could have a chestnut, blue, opal, steel.... no one knows what is under white until they breed white to something so a white might work fine or it might give you a bunch of not useful colors.

.

????? REW is very definatly "albino" In fact it is the most "albino" one can be. The rabbit is not "white" the rabbit is colourless! The reason the eyes are red is because you are seeing the blood vessels in the back of the eye through the colourless iris. REWS are incapable of producing colour in their fur and eyes. They are "cc" which is a mutation that removes the colour producing melanin from the hair shafts.The rabbit is unable to produce melanin at all, which in every mammal including man, is called full albino. There are varying "types"
of albinism, which include the cali or himi marked and anything chinchilla at all. There is also the lutino which shows a beige colour along with the pink eyes. However, a rew rabbit still has the genetic code the same as any other rabbit. REW is just a short and easy term used to express "albino" which doesn't sound quite as nice and it doesn't really describe WHICH albino type one is talking about, so the term rew makes it to the point which type.

The doe would be fine bred to either buck. The REW buck if he has also produced blacks as well as agouti then carries the self gene as well as the agouti gene (Aa) Your doe has the broken gene already (EN en) The buck because he produced black or full colour will be (D _) not sure if he has produced dilute? Also black being full colour makes him(B _) not sure if chocolate is present or not/ So your rew buck is the genotype Aa B_ cc D_ E_ en en
Size difference shouldn't really hurt and its only a pound difference between them. Best to use both bucks and then you have two lines going back to the doe which you can breed together. Although once you get the brokens you might want to line breed on the larger buck instead just to keep up that weight.

 

[akane]

I said true albino of which none of your examples except possibly rew falls under it. That is arguable. Lutino expresses color, often yellow in birds, himi expresses color on the points... These get referred to as psuedo-albino or leucism sometimes but they are not true albino. True albinos in most animals including man have major health problems. It doesn't exist in horses because it's lethal. I believe it's lethal in gerbils as well despite them having a version called pink eyed white and red eyed white the tails still show some color on the skin as pups and the eyes can be different shades of red. If rew in rabbits truly expresses no pigment at any stage anywhere it would be the only example I know of that does not result in major health issues and quite often death.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

A true albino exist in the wild. Like kangaroos and skunks will have the odd one produce. In most of mammals including humans will produce one. Not all have health problems. Just more easier for predators . Just like in lions,ect.

Rew are produce by man. In order to see what color they are. YOu have to breed to a colored rabbit. Rew to Rew will give you Rew.

 

[Honorine]

I have found REW's in general to be less hardy than their colored counterparts, they seem to die sooner, have more eye infections, eye sensitivity. They seem more sensitive to medications, and when I had that funky virus go thru my rabbitry two years ago they showed signs first and died the quickest. I have also found similiar problems with BEW's, which is also a form of Albinoism. BEW's are just weaker, have immune problems, eye problems, some of it I know is from inbreeding, but I'm beginning to think that a lot of it is color linked, as I've worked hard to expand my gene pool and I'm still seeing problems. Yes I think that REW's in rabbits are true albinos and are weaker than their colored counterparts, I think that all forms of Albinoism with the exception of Siamese cats cause color linked weaknesses. Look at those wacky white Dobermans and all the health problems they have. I think that we tend to not see the problems with REW rabbits because they are food animals, and because rabbits aren't long lived and can keel over at the drop of a hat. Regardless I'm convinced they do have issues related to their Albinoism.

 

[-HRanchito]

It might be a function of how many REWs/BEWs there are in your breed. NZWs are REW, (right?) and they are bred by so many people that most of the kinks have been worked out of 'em. I know human albinos have a pretty rough time with the sun -- I've been wondering if REWs can sunburn easily as well? I guess they don't have to worry about it, having fur and all.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

New zealand whites are man made. NOt the same at all. Not a true albino. They dont have the health problems as a true albino does. New zealand whites are breed off of the new zealands reds then mixed with other rabbits ect ect. Like i said it is man made. Any thing that is man made is NOT A TRUE ALBINO ....It is a simple as that.

 

[-HRanchito]

So they don't have red eyes? Wantwantwant!

 

[tnelsonfla]

Just because you can bred them doesn't mean you should. If you have an over weight 5 1/2-6 lb rabbit does mean the bone structure would handle giving birth to a NZ kit. It could cause great harm to your doe. If you have any other bucks to breed her to I would.

 

[fuzzy9]

Although once you get the brokens you might want to line breed on the larger buck instead just to keep up that weight.

That's what I was thinking of doing, especially since the goal is to eventually produce a nice meaty NZ type, with smaller bone, and more meat, while keeping the broken pattern going. I'm excited to see now, how long this "project" will take, and how many generations out before we produce something that meets the goals I've set.

If you have an over weight 5 1/2-6 lb rabbit does mean the bone structure would handle giving birth to a NZ kit.

I'm not 100% sure you can really tell this doe is overweight just by looking at the picture. The picture I've posted of Mazy was taken when she first came here. She was wormy, and quite underweight once you put your hands on her. She's filled in nicely after being wormed, and fed properly. I would never do any harm to an animal of mine, which is why I came here to ask those more skilled at this than I am. Thank you for your input though, I do appreciate your time.