Colony question 9x5 feet? 10x9 feet + 5x9 feet? 4 does..

[Zab]

Ok, this may sound stupid.. but..
I never planned for a colony, I'm having separate cages. The regular belief here is that keeping two or more rabbits together require ridicculous amount of space (like 500square feet at least) Then I noticed some pictures on smaller colony cages and I started thinking.

How much space do they really need? To not fght that is, I have no plans to keep them in areas big enough for them to not require feeding or anything.

As it is I have two sisters in one cage thats 3x1,5 metres (9 x 5 feet). My hopes is that they'll keep being nice with litters (they have separate houses if they want that), my plan is to cull one if they don't like each other all the time..

But could it work out? Is there anything I can do?

Could it be a possibility to take one doe into a tinier cage some week before her delivery and put her and the kits back in the big cage with the other doe when the kits start to get out of the nest, or would that just complicate things?

Is it better or worse to have them pregnant at the same time or to let them carry their litters with a few weeks between?

I don't want to cram as many buns into each cage as possble, but I wonder if it's realistic to hope that two does can keep a nice relation in one cage that small, with litters.. They're very friendly now, but..

I plan to make two more cages like the ones I have - one for a couple of Big Silver sistrs and one for male kits when it's time to separate them..

__________ Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:28 pm __________

I will build two more cages, but I have limited space. Would it be better to make one 10x9 feet and keep 4 does in it? Two unrelated pairs. I could open doors to the one cage I already have, adding the 5x9feet cage during the time I don't have male kits older than 8 weeks.

Can the does live and kindle in that space together?

I'll be keeping the buck alone because I just don't want the does to get pregnant immediatly after birth and so on. It's not concidered good around here. He'll see them though.

 

[Secuono]

It depends on the rabbit and then they can still fight after getting along when they give birth or are pregnant or when you introduce new rabbit. It really will vary a lot, if you want to just dump some rabbits together and hope they get along no matter what, you will need a crazy amount of space, time, many hide outs and maybe even some rabbit band-aids.
4x8ft would be minimum for 2 adult rabbits, add another 2x4ft for another rabbit, etc. But if the ground is solid, you will need to move the pen or the poo and holes will build up and be nasty.

 

[DarayTala]

My colony was made up of 3 does and 1 buck, all in the 10-12 lb range, so not small bunnies. They had an area of about 10 x 8 ft, and I never had any issue with fighting. I made sure they had five places to hide so they could escape each other if need be. They were put together all at once, the oldest was around ten months, and the youngest around four. Now I'm sure in a lot of situations four adult rabbits would not get along so perfectly in that amount of space, but it worked well for me and I would certainly try it again.

 

[Zab]

ChickensnBunnies: Thanks for your reply.
I'll of course muck out the pens and keep it fresh with shavings/straw. As it is now (I have two does in the 5x9 pen) they keep a toilet corner, net prevents them from digging holes in the ground. I don't know if these will keep being friendly once they have kits, but I hope so. My original plan was just to have two does - one of these and one of another breed. But I got both of these together and figured I could keep them as long as they're friendly to each other..

One question; is there any chance that will work with kits in this setting?

I will build either two more cages same size (5x9 each) and have 1-2 does in one of those cages (sisters if they'll get along) OR I'll build one 10x9 feet cage and keep all does in that.. that would be ideal for me but only if it works.. They could have access to another 5x9feet cage at times.

A crazy amount of space isn't very precise... :/

These are my options since I don't have more space to work with and I rather not keep tiny cages. I rather have only 2 does in a cage like that each, than several in small cages.

So question 2: Is it worth a try? Of course there's a possibility to divide them and build an extra wall between then if it really wouldn't work out.

DarayTala:
Thanks.
How did you handle kits and kindling?
Keeping enough of hideouts feels like a really good idea.

This is what I have now, it's about 10x10 and divided in two.
I can either build one more just like it (and hope two other sisters can share one section, or one like it that's not divided into two sections (that would hold all 4 does).
I want 2-4 does, the buck will stay in his own cage as he is now. I intend to use the one cage for male kits, so it could be accesable for the does when I don't have adult kits.

I'm prepared to not be able to keep more than 2 does, one of each breed (aka cull two) in separate cages, but if possible I'd like to have them together or in pairs.

Two in one of the small sections (5x10)

Could 4 does share that space (if I removed the divider in the middle)? That's the question..
Adding hideouts and such, also getting a more permanent roof etc, are details that'll be fixed. The rabbits are adult, and the other breed I'd like to get is 1kg bigger.

__________ Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:43 pm __________

Of course I could just get one of the bigger does, instead of a pair of sisters.

Woud there be more risk of fights if I put the 4 in together and then (if necessary) remove 1, than if they're never more than 3 to start with? I mean, if they're 4 and fight, will they keep fighting once 1 is gone - even f they perhaps wouldn't have fought had they only been 3 to start with?

I don't think I'll breed them all at once either, btw. Perhaps make it so tht there's never more than two litters at once = one very young and one ready to go.

 

[MaggieJ]

I have a small colony in a shed... 8 feet by 8 feet. Normally I keep two does and a buck in it... plus offspring. Since I don't butcher until about 16 weeks, there can be quite a few rabbits in there at times, of various ages. I have never seen any sign of a fight. We did have one randy young buck making a nuisance of himself and removed him to a cage in the greenhouse until we sent him to camp. Since you are keeping your buck in a separate pen, you will not have this problem.

I think the key is to put the rabbits together when very young - preferably sister does. If they are together from the beginning, they work out dominance issues before they become a fighting issue. If the dominant doe chanced to be really nasty, I would send her to freezer camp right away... but I have never seen it happen.

I know Europe has very high standards for rabbit housing (and the main reason I switched to a colony was because I became increasingly sorry for the rabbits in individual cages) but your pens are very spacious and you should experience no problems.

If you wish, you might want to add a wind barrier (tarp or plywood) to break the prevailing winds. You also might want to add a shelf or two so that the rabbits have more off-the-ground lounging areas. It is an easy way to extend the space without rebuilding.

 

[Zab]

How do you mean with wind barrier? As it is now I have a tarp (top picture) and once all cages/pens are done there will be some sort of wall there. There will definetly be some permanet protection, even if the area is somewhat protected from winds (house one side, a wall behind it and at least when it's green, low vegetation surrounding.) But were you thinking of any special place a wind barrier would be more necessary?

Thanks for the ideas. I'll be thinking ov shelves, I doubt I'll make very big ones or ''a second floor'' since I need to be able to reach, but some sort of shelf along the sides would give them more space to run without interfering with my reach or cleaning. I could even add pipes/tunnels some ways along such a shelf and in that way give extra hideouts. I'm thinking of moving the houses too so they have room to run around them (they liked to squeese in behind the house and the net but that was inconvenient for me so I blocked that possibility for now and got them a tunnel instead). I think they'll like if I moved the house just enough to give them a little more tunnel. They also like to sit on top of the houses, I'm still amazed how they manage to jump up there and not just slide off that slippery roof *lol*

The pens I have now are very hastily built. I planned getting rabbits for a long while (started thinking of it 3 years ago and some months ago I figured I really wanted to go through with it). But I had some issues getting the paperwork and such done to get my study loans. Once I was fairly sure I'd get them I started looking for bunnies, and when I found some I liked it all happened fast. Their breedr had absolutely no space since a tree had ruined part of her rabbitry, and she needed to cull off several of her rabbits either way..(they're already 6-7 months and sharing a small cage 4 together) I had a big indoor cage, loaded it into my car and drove to get the rabbits. They had to share that cage untill my money got here (2 days later) and I could buy net. These cages are less than a month old. While I had a good plan, I'm re-thinking my idea and I want to do it right when I build the second part. The does I want to get should be old enough for delivery sometime in march so I have untill then to fix the second cage.

Do you think it will work to introduce a 8-12 week old doe into these two sisters? They'll be some 9-10 months or so whn time comes. And all will be going to the new cage at the same time, I figure. They were very friendly to the buck even though they wern't willing with him..

This colony thinking is new to me. ''colony'' is not that usual and the types I've heard of is huge pens with rarely any good roof and just a fence. Like a smaller horse pasture. Problem is that we have a whole lot of foxes, ferrets and predator birds here so I'm not happy to put the rabbits in any cage that's not as secured as possible. Last year our neigbours lost all their pet rabbits to ferrets that crawled through the larger wire at the roof of their play-pastures.
So I really don't know how much space they really need to not fight.. people here in sweden say they need impossibly large pastures but that's very contradicting to the pictures I've seen on the forum where they have plenty of space but not hundreds of square metres.. That'ds what put me into thinking of a colony rather than lage cages. That, and I saw how much these two sisters liked to stay together.

I figure that if they don't fight they have enough space.. they'll be able to run and in all cases be better off than most rabbits as far as I can see (pets or no) but I just don't know how much area they really need to not fight.

Of course not all rabbits will work together and I might be unlucky, but it's good to have an idea wether it's realistic to think it will work or if it's indeed too small and just an impossible fantasy.. your post gives me hope.

I think I'll settle for 3 does though.

 

[MaggieJ]

How do you mean with wind barrier? As it is now I have a tarp (top picture) and once all cages/pens are done there will be some sort of wall there. There will definetly be some permanet protection, even if the area is somewhat protected from winds (house one side, a wall behind it and at least when it's green, low vegetation surrounding.) But were you thinking of any special place a wind barrier would be more necessaty?

I don't know the conditions in your area, Zab, but the cages looked a little bit exposed to the wind. Rabbits can take the cold if they are able to keep dry and out of the wind. The pens look great... very spacious. Here we can get horrid winds at times... and that is why I was concerned.

Do you think it will work to introduce a 8-12 week old doe into these two sisters? They'll be some 9-10 months or so whn time comes. And all will be going to the new cage at the same time, I figure. They were very friendly to the buck even though they wern't willing with him..

The sooner you introduce the third doe, the better. It will likely be okay at the 8-12 week point. You'll need to check them for signs of problems, but likely all will go smoothly.

Of course not all rabbits will work together and I might be unlucky, but it's good to have an idea wether it's realistic to think it will work or if it's indeed too small and just an impossible fantasy.. your post gives me hope.

Colonies work quite well... but you need to keep an eye open for problems and be able to react quickly if there is a problem. From what I know of you, I think you will do very well with a colony. Unless there is danger of animal rights activists descending on you for violations of the unrealistic standards for housing, I suggest you use your good common sense about what the rabbits need. Of course, we are always happy to give you our opinions if you ask.

 

[Zab]

I know about the wind and I WILL fix a permanent protection that covers more of the cage, it will just be easier when everything is done. The other two/one cage will be built wall to wall with this one, and that's why I want it finished before I start messing with walls. As it is now they have a choice; the houses are windproof, both can fit in there without sitting at the entrance hole. It's also isolated in the floor + lots and lots of straw. And the black upside-down bucket has an entrance hole facing the other way, so they can use that if the want (and they do). The buck also have two houses. As long as they're clever enough to go inside when it's too windy (I'm startig to doubt that, they seem to stay outside in bad weather and inside in good..*sigh* ), they should do fine untill it's all properly set. We've had two snowy storms already this month and they're still as healthy and happy as I can imagine, to my surprise even the tarp survived. But I agree, the wind is the one thing I don't really like as it is.

The sooner as in younger the third is, or the sooner for the other two? Either way I can't really make it sooner. :/

Hehe, thank you. I try my best to be realistic and a nice rabbit owner I do have a spare cage (the big indoor cage can be put in the stables etc) if I for some reason need it already, and I try to keep everything okay. I hope the animal right activists won't find me.. some of those are just unreal. And I've been both vegan and vegetarian, I still think some just go too far >_> But I follow swedish law and even with the new cage regulations I'm far on the safe side.

 

[MaggieJ]

Sounds to me as though you have a good grasp of what you need to do for the rabbits. Please don't think I was being critical. It is sometimes difficult to assess how much a new member knows. So I tend to err on the side of "too much advice" rather than "not enough".

 

[Zab]

Critique is a good thing as long as it's well put I rather hear an advice I've already been thinking of, than not hearing one I should have known.

It's a system of keeping rabbits that I'm just not familiar with, so I'm happy when people don't expect me to know everything about it. I've kept bunnies 12 years ago, compted in bunny hopping. But that's a long time ago and I had individual cages and no breeding (only one litter) so a lot of this is new to me.

 

[MaggieJ]

Your previous experience will be valuable... At least you know all the basics. When I started with rabbits in 2005 my only previous experience was with my son's pet rabbit, years before. I had to pioneer the natural feeding idea and also the colony idea because neither were accepted as correct back them. I'm a bit bull-headed though... and I'm fairly pleased with the progress we have made since then. There is never only one "right way" to do things.

 

[Zab]

Thanks

How does your rabbityry loo like now?

 

[MaggieJ]

The link below has pictures of my colony.

pictures-of-nest-tunnels-in-colony-t2903.html

 

[Zab]

Oh, I've seen that! So it was yours Looks nice and not too huge - so my idea might work