champagne d'argent and white Flemish

[Lowstorm]

Hi! So I'm breeding for meat mutts. I have a longer story about why some of the babies are smaller. Since this is a color and genetics...

Buck is a purebred champagne mom is a rew Flemish. The babies were all born black on 2-17. The other litter is pure champs and they're all raised together due to Flemish being a horrible momma.

This is them yesterday.

So what the heck are they?!? And will their colors change like a champagne does? <br /><br /> __________ Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:36 am __________ <br /><br /> So the side story. Momma Flemish had 9 babies. Momma champagne had 6, 1 stillborn. They are in a colony. I took 2 of the Flemish crosses and evened out the letters by giving them to the champ day 2. On day 10 I realized the Flemish does babies were falling waaaaay behind. I have a pic of the comparison at that point. It was bad. I lost 2 but momma champ is a very very good momma and has been feeding 12 babies. I'm pretty sure the Flemish has also been feeding them. Both does are tending the box. So that's why 5 babies are way smaller than the rest.

 

[2CrazyFools]

I've heard the reason why flemish aren't considered good for meat rabbits is because they take longer to come to size and then their meat to bone ratio isn't as good as other breeds like the NZ or Cali. Have you done this cross before and not had any issues with them coming to size? They sure are adorable, :in_love: but I don't have any input as to what colors they would be, lol.

 

[alforddm]

You have come chinchilla in that mix. Light gray in flemish. In that photo I can't tell if several of them are brassy chins or low rufus chestnuts.

 

[Lowstorm]

I haven't done this mix before. These are my first as an adult buns. My dad used to raise flemish and Calixflemish. As a flemish x champagne I'm hoping to get big buns for freezer camp, and keep 2 of the females (If the big two are females, they're staying, if they're not they'll be hitting the freezer) and also hoping to sell some as pets. Up here people seem to love the big buns for pets, not the little ones. And these guys are promising to be BIG buns! The does I keep will be crossed back to dad to make the true meat mutts I'm going for. 3/4 champagne, 1/4 flemish. Supposed to give lots of meat on a lighter bone structure. And if the flemish fails a second time with her litter, she'll be sold as a pet. She's so so so sweet, just.. kinda an idiot with babies.

Size wise the ones that were raised with the champs from the start are a bit bigger than the champs, by a few oz, but I don't have a good accurate scale yet. This was technically their second litters, but the first ones froze out during a -40 cold snap the week they were born. In December. Stupid cold weather. We usually stay in the 20's like when these guys were born in December. We're counting this as their first litters since the babies didn't have a chance the first time around. That first time they each had a dozen babies!!!

I'll look up the chinchillas, greys and chestnuts. I know 4 of the 'dwarfed' ones look just like wild cottontails, except with a bit more black in their coats. I'm hoping that the ones I keep silver over it all too now that I've seen what the Champagne genes do to the crosses. Its so fun playing with genetics and coat color. I was explaining color genetics to the kids last night, since in high school that's what they're learning and said they don't understand. Breaking out the squares.

__________ Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:58 pm __________

Alright, you definitely pointed me in the right direction. The 'dwarf' ones almost all have white in the ears = agouti pattern. So A_ There are 4 that way.
The other 3 have solid colored ears, meaning they're self colored. aa. This is so freaking fun! Or would it be 'tan' making them at?
Now, with the male being B_, but the babies are brown, that would make him Bb, and the doe was bb, making bb babies? Or would the other colors mask it and they're Bb? Wait, Bb would produce what I have, wouldn't it? A darker brownish color, with the black speckles throughout. I really need to take these buns out and get good shots of each lol
Of course, since she's cc and he's not, the C locus they're all Cc.
Dilute... they're all DD. There's no odd color eyes, or fading to blues, etc.
E=EE? Normal coloring, no brindling on any of them.

So if I did this right, there are 4 that are 'chestnut' (I'm betting that's what they are) are A_ Bb, Cc, DD, EE
The three that are 'other' colored are aa, Bb, Cc, DD, EE.
And then the rufus genes and silvering genes will be working on them, so I'll get some si thrown on the end of there, and +'s worked out.
the fourthat look completely identical will be A_BbCcDDEEsi+
The other three that don't look like that will be aaBbCcDDEEsi or possibly atat.. so on and so forth.

__________ Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:19 pm __________

More reading, lol.

Alright, they're ALL agouti, which is repressing the black to turn it into agouti.
A_B_CcDDEE
Then the chinchilla? Wholy crap. A_B_chncDDEE...
But some have the white ears, and some have greyish/tanish ears (and bellies too) The four 'same' ones are all white eared, the three 'others' have the colored ears. Would that be the rufus coming out? Or the chincilla making the white ears...

 

[Dood]

Those might be steeled

They often look self as babies but then they grow in the ticking from their agouti gene later on

 

[twr]

You can expect the crosses to silver up, but not as much as the champagne. They should have a lot less silver, and the visual contrast between the silver and agouti is less than that between silver and self black.

 

[Lowstorm]

Lost one of the Champagnes today. I read 3-4 weeks can be hard on them due to weaning. Poor little guy. Or girl. I can't tell this young yet. <br /><br /> __________ Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:38 pm __________ <br /><br /> Well I had three cooperative bunnies today.

 

[Dood]

Chestnuts = Aa B_ Cc D_ E_ SIsi