Cervical Dislocation; do they bleed out?

[MamaSheepdog]

When using the Rabbit Wringer or similar device, is there any bleeding from the nose or mouth?

 

[Zass]

When we broomstick it happens occasionally, maybe 1/10 the time, but it's usually only a little blood. Most of the blood pools in the neck.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Excellent. Thank you.

 

[Dood]

Only occasionally - usually if the wind pipe is torn/ripped from pulling excessively

 

[3mina]

I usually end up with it pooling in the neck

 

[MewsicLovr]

Have an odd question on this, and my google-fu is failing me. What is it about cervical dislocation specifically that kills the rabbit? Like, what is it about breaking the neck that kills? It seems like the cord would still be attached to the brain and therefore they would still be "alive" in theory. I'm not questioning that it does in fact kill, I'm just wondering what the scientific reason is.

Just something I was wondering about today.

 

[Zass]

Have an odd question on this, and my google-fu is failing me. What is it about cervical dislocation specifically that kills the rabbit? Like, what is it about breaking the neck that kills? It seems like the cord would still be attached to the brain and therefore they would still be "alive" in theory. I'm not questioning that it does in fact kill, I'm just wondering what the scientific reason is.

Just something I was wondering about today.

I honestly cannot say I know, so I can only state what I have observed. It seems as if all nerve connections are cut off, not just the head from the body.

The very second it's done the heart stops beating, the eyelids lose their automatic response or ability to blink. Breathing has stopped.

A few seconds later the nerves begin to cause the body to spasm.It's even been noted that rabbits without the use of their hind legs will still kick them after they are killed. It's not a death struggle, since all other rational or automatic functions have ceased.

Sometimes the muscles will continue to spasm even after the head has been removed and the animal has been butchered and cut into portions. It can be quite unnerving the first few times you see a chunk of meat contracting all by itself.

 

[michaels4gardens]

The dislocation of the neck does sever the spinal cord, and as Zass said above, the eye is unresponsive, [that means it is brain dead] - also the "bleed out" in the neck is sudden and complete, as it also severs the arteries in the neck, -- so it is kind of like having the head cut off in effect. I would suggest that dislocation be done with a firm, and good hard pull to make sure it is complete and sudden. and--If you remove the head immediately after dislocation you can see the heart is pumping all of the blood out rapidly, and the rabbit is "bled out" completely in a few seconds. --
For those who are raising for pelts [and / or killing older rabbits] a rabbit wringer will save a lot of trauma for the rabbit and the one doing the killing, because it takes a lot of pressure to dislocate the neck on an older buck, when dislocating the neck by hand.

 

[grumpy]

Cervical Dislocation is just that. The body is immediately paralyzed. Death
may, or may not be, instantaneous. The heart, an independent organ,
continues to beat for a few moments. There's enough electrical continuity
within the nerves below the severed spinal cord to allow this phenomena to
occur. There's a very fine line between too much pressure and just enough
pressure to sever the cord without tearing the major arteries in the neck area.

An example would be a comparison between a human being suffering traumatic
injury to the neck with the spinal cord being nearly or completely severed.
Partial sever allows breathing for only a moment or two before breathing
ceases completely. With a complete dislocation of the spinal cord it is
immediate. Death follows within seconds.........not moments. However,
once again, the heart "will" beat for an extremely brief period due to the
electrical energy stored within the body.

There is "no" method that assures instant oblivion. The only difference
is the duration from the start of the procedure to the finish when all
body responses.....end, and all life leaves all portions of the body.
Cognizant life is swift to its' end. Reflexive life takes a few moments longer.
Although the "brain" may be technically dead, the body follows in its own
manner. Quite often the differences between one animal and the next are
very dissimilar. Our covenant is to end that life as swiftly and painlessly as
we possibly can.

Next, comes the problem with the pooling of blood in and around the neck
and shoulder area. With each method of dispatch comes its own fingerprint
of this problem. None are perfect. The poultry and swine industries have
historically done nothing more than severe the carotid artery. Death is swift
and relatively painless with no trauma involved other than the incision area.
This has always been a highly emotional issue between the public and the
industry.

Nearly perfect is the swift dislocation of the spinal cord and the animal goes
limp immediately and very little nerve-flexing once this has occurred. However,
this does not occur every time. With practice, one can swiftly remove the pelt,
eviscerate the body, and witness the heart still functioning a small amount.

Grumpy.

 

[3mina]

I was processing yesterday and I took the head off one quickly enough to see the arteries still pumping. Worried me for a second, it did but I've been checking eyeball reflexes for the last few sessions to make I've been getting things right.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

For human meat consumption I still prefer to bonk them on the forehead and swiftly cut their necks because there is no bruising to the neck area.

However, I have a cull buyer that sells to zoos and the reptile hobbyist market, so need to be able to present an intact, blood free carcass. Cervical dislocation seems to be a good way to go.

He has other breeders who use Co2 chambers to dispatch, but I have read conflicting views on those in regard to rabbits.

 

[grumpy]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

For human meat consumption I still prefer to bonk them on the forehead and swiftly cut their necks because there is no bruising to the neck area.

However, I have a cull buyer that sells to zoos and the reptile hobbyist market, so need to be able to present an intact, blood free carcass. Cervical dislocation seems to be a good way to go.

He has other breeders who use Co2 chambers to dispatch, but I have read conflicting views on those in regard to rabbits.

MSD:

This is a method I've been working with and I find it superior to the other
ways to dispatch and end up with a "cleaner" looking product. Frankly, I
was very surprised to notice the neatness of the neck and shoulder areas
when I tried this for the first time this last week-end.

I butchered three on special order for a long-time customer. They looked
a whole lot better than my standard cervical dislocation method. There's a
bit of a trick to it though in the manner and amount of force one needs to use.


Grumpy.

 

[mystang89]

I use the broomstick method and I don't know about any electrical current running through them keeping their nerves going or anything but I do know the last rabbit I killed I took the heart out and layed it with the "good" meat and a few minutes later my son came in and asked me what that was that was moving. I looked down and the heart was still pumping... Now I've had the meat move in my hand and I got used to that, but the heart still pumping at least 10 min after the rabbit was killed was pretty cool.

 

[aussiegirl]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

For human meat consumption I still prefer to bonk them on the forehead and swiftly cut their necks because there is no bruising to the neck area.

However, I have a cull buyer that sells to zoos and the reptile hobbyist market, so need to be able to present an intact, blood free carcass. Cervical dislocation seems to be a good way to go.

He has other breeders who use Co2 chambers to dispatch, but I have read conflicting views on those in regard to rabbits.

I have been using the dislocation method on my 8 week old rabbits for several years where I was supplying the buyer 400 - 500 rabbits every 6 weeks with the plan of eventually doing at least 700, now he only wants between 80 - 100.

Because of this, I have recently found a new buyer who wants me to supply a minimum of 400 rabbits per month. I have to supply the rabbits when they weigh between .500gr - .700gr (3 - 4 weeks old) so they require me to use CO2.

When the first lot of rabbits were ready they came around to show us what to do. After the first 10 rabbits were done I had to go inside while my husband stayed to help as I was a bit upset during the process, I asked if the rabbits were suffering as they were rushing around the container squealing (my husband made a rabbit squeal ONCE when we first started out using Dislocation and I got quite upset with him - never happened again).
These people seem to be very nice and they assure me that gassing is Humane, But to me a rabbit ONLY squeals if it is in Pain or Terrified. I am really concerned about doing the next lot of rabbits in a few days time as I just CAN'T do it if I feel the rabbits are suffering during the process.

My Question is can you still use the Cervical dislocation for rabbits this size?, when we were doing the rabbits at 8 weeks old they were gone within seconds using this method.

 

[Prisma]

Check the concentration and rate at which the gas was put in, and then do it slower. Start with a low concentration and increase as time goes. What kind of set up did you have? Really need a regulator so can insure doing slowly. You can do without but slower is better. Also having a way for the oxygen to escape out the top (CO2 displaces it, heavier gas) will help. You will see them pass out first and continue to breath, they need to be left there for at least 10 minutes after passing out or you can have a bunch of rabbits wake back up that you did not expect to have do that. The first time I had that happen, scared the daylights out of me and if I do that let them sit for 15 to 20 after they black out to insure death. It is painless and they don't know what's going on if done correctly. It burns when done too fast unfortunately and they can panic.... If done slowly, should take about 30-40 minutes to do and can do large batches (I've done 15 or so rabbits at once), they won't know a thing is going on and just pass out before it actually kills them (no oxygen to brain leading to organ failure). You CAN use it for those 2 weeks and up, BUT you have to be careful not to rip the entire rabbit apart....they are very soft at that age and it can be done easily. I do the broomstick method, since my regulator crapped out on me and I'm not comfy doing it without being able to know. Looking for a replacement as I liked it much better, easier to clean and use them than broomstick and I don't have to have my hands on them.

 

[a7736100]

I once broomsticked a young rabbit and the whole head came off when I yanked.

 

[Dood]

Carbon dioxide is no longer considered an acceptable method of euthanasia of many animals , including rabbits

From - https://www.adelaide.edu.au/ANZCCART/pu ... anasia.pdf

Carbon dioxide
Carbon dioxide euthanasia has been recommended (Lumb and Jones, 1973), but Green (1979), Ewbank (1983) and Green (1987) have recommended against using it. This is because in animals larger than guinea pigs there seems to be a delay in the loss of consciousness, together with distress (manifested by restlessness, deep respiration, salivation, pawing at the nose) before they collapse. This distress is believed to result from breathlessness and irritation by carbonic acid production on the nasal mucosa (Ewbank, 1983). However Von Cranach et al., (1991) have recommended the use of 100% carbon dioxide. The method may be acceptable for use on baby rabbits up to three weeks of age, but they have a very high tolerance to anoxia and will recover after 30 minutes of anoxia (Glass et al., 1944).
In the opinion of the writing group the use of carbon dioxide in rabbits is not acceptable.

 

[TF3]

Great discussion!
I beheaded a young one, too. Eek.
When I was processing (first time) I found less pooling if I removed the head much more quickly.
I only had 1 of 13 bleed from the nose.

 

[michaels4gardens]

Carbon dioxide is no longer considered an acceptable method of euthanasia of many animals , including rabbits

From - https://www.adelaide.edu.au/ANZCCART/pu ... anasia.pdf

Carbon dioxide
Carbon dioxide euthanasia has been recommended (Lumb and Jones, 1973), but Green (1979), Ewbank (1983) and Green (1987) have recommended against using it. This is because in animals larger than guinea pigs there seems to be a delay in the loss of consciousness, together with distress (manifested by restlessness, deep respiration, salivation, pawing at the nose) before they collapse. This distress is believed to result from breathlessness and irritation by carbonic acid production on the nasal mucosa (Ewbank, 1983). However Von Cranach et al., (1991) have recommended the use of 100% carbon dioxide. The method may be acceptable for use on baby rabbits up to three weeks of age, but they have a very high tolerance to anoxia and will recover after 30 minutes of anoxia (Glass et al., 1944).
In the opinion of the writing group the use of carbon dioxide in rabbits is not acceptable.

I had the distinct displeasure of watching cats being killed this way-[at a pound]- it was horrible - I don't see how this practice was allowed.....

 

[FourRingCircus]

I had to dispatch a litter of 5 week old kits due to pasteurella - I did cervical dislocation by hand which was a bit :x for me (10 years ago, when I first got married, I couldn't touch raw meat... I graduated up to being able to handle it, but knife on bone or things like tearing the drumstick from the chicken was not happening... now I am the main meat processor in the house. I've come a long way :lol: ), but I made it. No heads came off, and it appeared to be pretty instantaneous because their ears changed from pink to purple (I assume from lack of oxygen) and no more blink reflex. A few had some blood come from the nose/mouth, but I cam guessing that was error on my part - probably too much force as I started, trying to figure it out. Not a fan of broomstick method... a rabbit wringer type set up has been working well for me for the bigger ones. The 5 week olds were too little for it.