Cage Virgin No More

[EnglishSpot]

I've decide to breed our NZ cross in January.

I'm looking on CL for cages since I may want to keep a doeling back or invest in a NZ red solely for meat kits.

What size cage should I get for a doe with a litter?

What size should a grow out pen be?

Is it more economical to purchase said cages from Kluber/Bass or build my own? I have aspirations in carpentry but not necessarily the skill, so that is a factor.

 

[SuburbanHomesteader]

My doe pens are 48 long, 24 deep, and 24 high. They also have a 1-foot shelf on one end, giving 10 square foot of floor space.
My grow-outs are 18 high, 24 deep, and either 48 or 36 long. I have a mix of both but more 48's than 36's.

I build my own pens but that's because I had some specific space needs and I was building many pens. I've had folks ask me
to build them a pen and when I priced out materials for just one or two pens, it's always cheaper to buy the pre-cut kits/pens
from Bass or Klubertanz.

I see pens posted on CL from time to time and very often can buy new for only a little more than the folks are asking for their
pens - and the photos show that repairs often would need to be done - not to mention the cleaning. I'm big into re-using and
re-purposing things but will splurge on nice clean new pens!!

So anyway, I'd think a 4-foot by 2-foot by 18-inch pen would be okay for a NZ doe and her kits. Best of luck to you!

 

[coyotejoe]

One big advantage to building your own is that you can build to any size which fits your available space. Another factor to consider is if you have some materials you can use to save buying new. If you plan out your design you may be able to get multiple cages out of a single roll of wire with little or no waste. If you can pick up the wire locally that will save shipping cost which is a big factor added on to the cost of the pre-fab cages from Bass or Kluber. You can also build "most" of your cage but purchase doors and such from Bass. Also remember that while it is common practice to use 1"x2" wire for sides and 1/2"x1" bottoms there is no law that you can't use 1/2"x1" for the whole cage if it saves buying a roll of wire and only using half of it.
When pricing wire be sure you are comparing apples to apples in terms of quality. For my most recent build I bought a roll of wire from True Value hardware which was 16 gauge and it did mike out as true 16 gauge wire but it was much softer wire than other 16 gauge wire I had bought before, same gauge but different steel. The result being that an all wire cage was too limp and saggy to support the weight of my growing rabbits without some additional support under the floor.
When all is said and done I know I saved a lot of money by building my own and I don't believe it required much more time and effort compared to assembling a pre-cut cage.

 

[EnglishSpot]

I've made arrangements to purchase two 24x24s complete with pans (and a stand for one of them). I'm getting them both for $45.

Is it feasible to do some cage doctoring and connect the two? Cut out entry ways on the sides and J-clip them together? I can always put doors over the holes if I need to re-separate, I figure. This way I can have a litter pen/grow out (and move mom back to her hutch) and later can convert back to two cages.

 

[Comet007]

We've tried a few different things, and I think we finally have cage sizes that work for us. Our "maternity" cages are 26x36, with a 10x26 inch shelf. Our nest boxes are the subterranean kind, so we only lose about 9x10 of floor space for that. We move the babies to the grow out cage at five weeks old, so the babies are really only with mom in the cage itself for about 2 to 2 1/2 weeks.

Our grow out cages are 26x48, with two 10x26 shelves, plus they have a subterranean nest box (left from when we used these as our maternity cages), plus we put things like a FiddleStix arch on the floor for them to climb on.

We have three maternity cages (we breed 3 does on the same day), and two grow out cages, so at the five week mark we divvy up the three litters to the two grow out cages. So far we haven't had any cages that seem unduly crowded, but we do process at 9 weeks even if some of the kits are still on the small side.

We absolutely love our Klubertanz cages, but we've never built our own so I don't know about the economics of building your own. I would imagine that if you're building a lot then it would be cheaper to build your own, but we only have 9 holes. <br /><br /> -- Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:42 am -- <br /><br />

I've made arrangements to purchase two 24x24s complete with pans (and a stand for one of them). I'm getting them both for $45.

Is it feasible to do some cage doctoring and connect the two? Cut out entry ways on the sides and J-clip them together? I can always put doors over the holes if I need to re-separate, I figure. This way I can have a litter pen/grow out (and move mom back to her hutch) and later can convert back to two cages.

I think you could definitely do that, and $45 is a good price!

 

[Marinea]

I've made arrangements to purchase two 24x24s complete with pans (and a stand for one of them). I'm getting them both for $45.

Is it feasible to do some cage doctoring and connect the two? Cut out entry ways on the sides and J-clip them together? I can always put doors over the holes if I need to re-separate, I figure. This way I can have a litter pen/grow out (and move mom back to her hutch) and later can convert back to two cages.

Putting the two together is a great idea. I would just make sure to add baby saver wire if there is none. Personally, I would be tempted to remove the whole side panels on each cage. They are probably J clipped, and I would just remove the clips and sides and attach the two cages together. When you want to separate them back into two cages, just put the sides back on. I just find it easier to not deal with patches, and you'd be talking a pretty big patch in a 24x24 cage for a NZ doe to fit through.

 

[craneman54]

Is it feasible to do some cage doctoring and connect the two? Cut out entry ways on the sides and J-clip them together? I can always put doors over the holes if I need to re-separate, I figure. This way I can have a litter pen/grow out (and move mom back to her hutch) and later can convert back to two cages.

To me it would depend on how you connect the 2 cages to make the larger one. The middle of the long cage would have to be supported so it wont fold at the junction. If you are getting a stand for just one cage you would have to extend the stand and keep a support right under the joint in the middle.

 

[EnglishSpot]

I've already drawn up plans for building a hutch to accommodate four 24x24x24 cages, I had some of the guys at work helping me with fine-tuning the carpentry aspect of it. Think of a shelf unit with two cages on top and two on the bottom. Depending on the need, I can have two large cages (being able to connect them) or four single holes (by dooring off the "crawlspace"). This way I can have 2, 3, or 4 holes if need be, plus the does's original hutch. I'll be able to slide the cages out of the unit for cleaning and clean the shelf unit also. I figure this to be about five foot high or there abouts total in height. Haven't worked the math yet on the dimensions.

Regarding the middle of the cage support, that was something I thought about also, which is why I considered putting the crawl space through. When I pick them up tomorrow I'll have a better idea of what to expect.

As far as the single stacking shelf unit, that can be tucked away in the tool shed in case I need it at a later date. I've already had interest from coworkers for rabbits alive and packed in ice. Many of them are hunters and appreciate not getting suspect rabbit meat.

I had to speak with ArticWolfLady (dd) about business plans for Vanaty Rabbits; when to sell, what do you do with the ones that don't sell, how litters will be divided, etc. She's excited at the prospect of making money from bunnies, although not as much by having to freezer camp them. DH is horrified by the imagined prospect of turning our garage "into a barn" and the cost of feeding!! Um. We haven't parked a car in the garage for almost a year. I won't mention his spending habits.

Anyway, we'll start off with a NZ cross doe and a MR father--the genetics should be interesting! I'm thinking about looking into a red NZ specifically for meat mutts but I'm not entirely thrilled with the NZ personality. I have to put up with enough cat-like behavior from the doe. Maybe a Californian? I know a MR is not ideal for meat munchies, but gotta start somewhere. <br /><br /> -- Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:46 pm -- <br /><br /> I picked up the cages today and I think I'll have to redo the floor in one, but that's okay since I'll be able to put the baby saver wire up 4" on the side. Bought 1x1 wire for two other cages to build and one roll of .5x1 for floors.

 

[coyotejoe]

My red NZ buck is a sweetheart, he's the only one of my rabbits who has become a sort of pet. He enjoys attention and petting and is always sitting at his door when I enter the hutch. He never freaks out when I'm pulling drop pans like some of the others do. I don't know what is "typical" for NZ's but I'm happy with this one. Also I think he is an especially handsome rabbit.

 

[EnglishSpot]

He is cute! Does he have a name?

I got a really good look at the cages today and on one the floor wire is rusted and warped badly, with the rust eating up 2 inches of the cage sides. So I chopped off the bottom and the rusty 2" of wire, I think I'm just going to put baby saver wire floor that bends up and attaches with J-clips at the sawn off level. One slightly irritating thing is that the two cages I purchased have their 1x2 cage side wire running the opposite direction of the other.... urgh. I don't know if connecting those two will be a possibility. Can you tell this is my first cage deal?

I bought the wire for making the other two cages and I'm looking/not looking forward to doing those.

 

[coyotejoe]

Yes, since he is a buck he got the very original name of "Bucky".
I designed my cages such that I don't cut out all of the parts and then clip them back together. I fold the wire so that it forms two sides and the top all in one piece, then I only have to cut and Jclip the bottom and ends.
The wood and chickenwire cage in the photo was an old pigeon cage I used for a while when I first got Bucky. He never tried to tear out but other bunnies I got later just tore right through the chicken wire.

 

[EnglishSpot]

Bucky--it works for him!
I think I'm going to have to redo all side cagewire on the cage I clipped. The floor wasnt salvagable nor the sides. Do you find cage strength in doing side-top-side or side-back-side? Which configuration is going to have more inherent strength, IYO? I don't mind rebuilding since I have a door and top out of this damaged cage--a learning experience before I tackle thise rolls of wire I bought.

 

[coyotejoe]

When I was making 30x36x18 cages I got 36" wire so that worked out best as two sides and the top with the floor and ends cut out and J clipped on. On the last cage I built I had a little extra 30" wide 1/2x1" wire flooring so I folded that up to form both ends so that whole cage was just two pieces of wire. As to which is most rigid, I'm not sure it makes any difference, no matter which way you go the door cut out is going to reduce rigidity to some extent. I think the biggest challenge is getting the roll of wire perfectly flat and that is important to the final product.

 

[EnglishSpot]

Today I built my first cage!! Wow, is the muscle below my thumb sore!! Gonna put some Volterol on that tonight!!

I built a 24x48x24 (is that right? It's a rectangle.) I used the TSC 1x1 wire , the .5x1 wire for the floor, the TSC j-clip plier and clips. Is it a quality cage? I don't know, but I'm pretty darned proud of it!! That's going to be my kits/growout cage, plus if need be I can put dividers in and make three 16x24 holding cells. I was so glad we have a workbench in our garage because I've been able to bend the wire around that rather than the 2x4!!

It took a couple hours to build with minimal help from ArticWolfLady and MinecraftMan (DS) and since I didn't have gloves my thumb pads are pretty shredded looking. I'm glad I've got some thick skin from handling freight and luggage!! I'm going to knock together a frame for it (similar to a bedframe--or maybe I can just use the bedframe in the garage?? Just thought of that!!!)

My husband came home and stared at the cage in half horror, realizing that I'm going to do the rabbit breeding "thing". Then he says, "How do you get the rabbits in? Where's the door?" I looked at him and said, "I have to cut them out." "Oh." Into the house he went.

I've begun building a wire nestbox too--does anyone have suggestions how to get that V-shape in the ends of the nestbox???

I've "introduced" Lexi and Trooper to each other and Lexi tried to break down Trooper's cage to get to him. She was lifting for him outside of his cage!! Is this kind of wantonness typical of rabbits? I would imagine this is a good thing!! Today, when she was running loose in the yard she kept trying to figure out ways to get to his cage on the table above!! You should have seen her hopping up on plastic yard chairs to try to get to his level!!

 

[grumpy]

For years, my standard response was a 30" X 30" X 18" for a brood doe and
her litter. Consequently, all of my doe pens (42) are the above size.

HOWEVER, as one grows older, ones' opinion changes. LOL. I find reaching
all the way back in those cages getting more and more difficult. I believe my
arms have shrunk and became much shorter!! Either that, or my belly's bigger.

Unless you've got arms like an Orangutan, I'd not go any further than 24" deep.
It wouldn't hurt to change the profile as well.

SEE BELOW:
These aren't my doe pens. They're grow-outs w/a boo-boo when I laid the
room out. Each side has 10 holes, 24" wide by 30" deep and a very narrow
aisle. "Not good for a short, fat-man, who's OLD!!" Just too hard to bend or
squat down to catch 30 or 40 market fryers every Wednesday morning.

I had to make some serious changes. My back couldn't take it.
It was a tough, tedious job, but here's what I ended up with. I DID lose 2
holes on each side, but these are 10 times easier to work with. All are 24"
deep by 30" wide, 18" tall on the back with a slope front 8" high.
(no more bending over)

 

[Silver Cloud]

Grumpy,
Those are awesome cages. Did you make a post telling how to make them? I would be interested.

Thanks

 

[coyotejoe]

Today I built my first cage!! Wow, is the muscle below my thumb sore!! Gonna put some Volterol on that tonight!!

I built a 24x48x24 (is that right? It's a rectangle.) I used the TSC 1x1 wire , the .5x1 wire for the floor, the TSC j-clip plier and clips. Is it a quality cage? I don't know, but I'm pretty darned proud of it!! That's going to be my kits/growout cage, plus if need be I can put dividers in and make three 16x24 holding cells. I was so glad we have a workbench in our garage because I've been able to bend the wire around that rather than the 2x4!!

It took a couple hours to build with minimal help from ArticWolfLady and MinecraftMan (DS) and since I didn't have gloves my thumb pads are pretty shredded looking. I'm glad I've got some thick skin from handling freight and luggage!! I'm going to knock together a frame for it (similar to a bedframe--or maybe I can just use the bedframe in the garage?? Just thought of that!!!)

My husband came home and stared at the cage in half horror, realizing that I'm going to do the rabbit breeding "thing". Then he says, "How do you get the rabbits in? Where's the door?" I looked at him and said, "I have to cut them out." "Oh." Into the house he went.

I've begun building a wire nestbox too--does anyone have suggestions how to get that V-shape in the ends of the nestbox???

I've "introduced" Lexi and Trooper to each other and Lexi tried to break down Trooper's cage to get to him. She was lifting for him outside of his cage!! Is this kind of wantonness typical of rabbits? I would imagine this is a good thing!! Today, when she was running loose in the yard she kept trying to figure out ways to get to his cage on the table above!! You should have seen her hopping up on plastic yard chairs to try to get to his level!!

"Cage virgin" sounds really kinky. :lol: I like your cage and with practice it gets quicker and easier. I don't believe cages need to be 24" high, most seem to work with 18" so unless there is some reason 24" works better for you why not save some wire? :? <br /><br /> -- Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:18 am -- <br /><br />

Grumpy,
Those are awesome cages. Did you make a post telling how to make them? I would be interested.

Thanks

I agree, that is an impressive set up Grumpy, you are the "master rabbitor".

 

[EnglishSpot]

Grumpy, that's a great modify!!!!! Maybe I'll do that!

The reason I went 24 high was that was the height of the roll of wire--less cutting and all. I figure worst case scenario I can stick a kid in it.
I bred the buck and doe today--five squeals and fall offs in five minutes. Not too bad for a first timer and the doe lifted almost immediately. She tried to mount him in dominance, but I wouldn't allow that and pinned her (which the buck promptly remounted LOL).

Come January 22 hopefully she'll need a nestbox!! I was cleaning up her hutch and found scads of pulled hair so I've begun saving it just in case!

 

[grumpy]

Grumpy,
Those are awesome cages. Did you make a post telling how to make them? I would be interested.

Thanks

Here ya go...!! It's a long post with lots of pics. I try to help wherever I can.
tear-down-pic-heavy-long-post-t19925.html

 

[EnglishSpot]

Today, with much bloodletting, I modified the giant rectangle cage I built last week into one of Grumpy's sexy angled cages!! Thanks Grumpy for the instruction!! I did mess up the angle on one side of the cage--not too horribly but there are some gaps where the wire doesn't meet. And then I cut a door a whole inch lower than the other door. :evil: So it was modified again, slightly.

Now I've got to make doors and apply babysaver to the bottom of the cage.

Does anyone have suggestions on how to blunt wire tips that were cut with a wire cutter?? I've got a whole cage outlined with shark's teeth it seems!! :doc: