Buyers for rabbits to hunt

[ladysown]

Okay... had a fellow email me today asking if I had large rabbits he could use for hunting.

I emailed him back saying I have young stock he can purchase from 2-5 lbs, $20 each. (I really would rather they not be hunted).

He sent me a counter offer of $2.50/lb. Hoping that I have some 3 lb rabbits I'll sell him.

I'm hesitating.
Hubby's not keen on the idea either.

He asks.... are hunters accurate when they shoot? We don't want pain/agony inflected on these kits. A clean kill I'm cool with, but pain, lack of accuracy... not cool with. PLUS these kits (four young boys) are friendly little beasts .. except for one who is standoffish but just a nice bun. So not even sure they would bolt and be good for hunting.

So I'm too full of questions to be gung ho about this... so talk to me please. Pros cons etc.

My general rule of thumb is .. if it leaves here live it goes sold for an "alive" price... usual minimum is $20.

Thanks.

 

[ckcs]

For me hunting a domestic rabbit is just to cruel for me to do it or intentionally allow someone to do it. I have no problems with people hunting wild rabbits. A domestic rabbit would be as difficult to hunt as shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[MaggieJ]

I wouldn't do it. It would make me too uncomfortable, not knowing how humanely they were dispatched. These people sound like "sport" hunters rather than "meat" hunters... and I have no respect for that. But that's me. (I come from a hunting family, but we've always had great respect for the animals. You don't shoot what you're not willing to eat.)

Also... I have to wonder about people who expect to hunt as we move toward summer. Hunting season for wild rabbits is fall and winter. So what are they thinking?

 

[ladysown]

thank you both.
You've done a great job of cementing our thoughts.
Hubby just said "send them to the market" they can get rabbits there.

 

[MaggieJ]

Very glad if you found our reactions helpful. Sometimes when faced with a situation like this one's gut reaction is fairly strong, but it can be difficult to articulate the reasons behind it. Talking helps!

 

[Prisma]

They ask for domestics all the time here...I tell them I don't support creating trash dogs, I've had dogs trained on domestics come to my cages and rip them apart. Good dogs are not trained with domestics, either they have what it takes or they do not.

We've had some rabbit dogs, not a lot but a few...they either are good dogs or they aren't. Training them to run domestics is no good, wild rabbits have a completely different smell. I refuse to believe those that say they are "good" to train with know what they are doing considering what's happened to me and what I know about these people and their dogs placements in trials. When I asked how they do it early on I was told they section off a pen, turn the dogs loose in with a rabbit, if it doesn't run they poke it until it does or the dogs rip it to pieces on "accident" if they can't get it away from them in time. They don't intend to let the dogs get the rabbit as it wastes their money and makes them have to go buy more, but it happens. I don't see how they live through one chase let alone repeats or long hours of it. I don't understand their logic at all...

 

[akane]

If the rabbits reacted the same I wouldn't see a difference in sending them to hunt wild or hunting domestic. Maybe for the environment it might even be better to hunt domestic rabbits. Domestics do not act the same though. If they haven't been out on grass they often just sit there in panic. I've had some pop out of the transport cage while I'm getting one to butcher and they just freeze. I can pick them right back up. Since mine are also used to dogs they will just sit there waiting for something to happen. That means they'd have to be abused a bit to make hunting them any fun. They still wouldn't know how to hide or where to run to avoid predators. Wouldn't actually be any good for sport hunting anyway. It would just be target practice or death by dogs.

 

[Zass]

The rabbits would likely be for dog training. I wouldn't be comfortable with it with my own rabbits. There are certain breeds selected for that. I do see san juan rabbits for sale on occasion. Not my cup of tea, but that would be the proper thing for dog training. They are supposed to retain a lot more of their wild instincts, and have the chestnut coats for camouflage.

To be honest, I don't trust the locals to know how to properly train dogs.

If they weren't for dog training...what the heck?? shooting practice? No way! Use a target like everyone else until rabbit season is back in, not a live animal!

My own meat rabbits are TAME. They are raised around dogs and not afraid of them. Either way, the "fish in a barrel" analogy sounds about right.

I never sell rabbits for others to dispatch either. I do occasionally sell them for meat, but we always "butcher as a free service" to insure it's done with as little stress to the rabbits as possible. So far only one person asked for a live one to do it themselves, and we refused the sale.

 

[grumpy]

TBH:
That just "ain't" right......... :x

I've had one or two folks while walking to the barn with me ask, "I've heard
if you twist their back, they'll squeal....Is that true??"

Stopping dead in my tracks, I replied, "I don't know...Why do you ask."

"Oh...just wanting to train my dogs.......that's all."

They NEVER made it to the barn. "Got nuthin' for sale, Buddy. You know
your way out. Have a nice day." Grumpy......showed up......quick!!

 

[Zass]

I worry about people wanting to use my rabbits for coyote baiting as well.

No, it isn't legal, but yes, some people would injure a rabbit, leave it somewhere exposed (caged or tied, I'm sure), and see if it's cries draw coyotes in. Most of those types wouldn't pay good prices for a rabbit, so sticking to the "alive price" is probably a good idea.

 

[CDiana]

yikes. Know if this ever comes up when I sells kits I will not be surprised. I am moving out in the country. My sister has a staghound (greyhound/deerhound cross). her's is strictly a pet. but they are a popular breed in North Dakota for coyote hunts. I can definitely see hunters who have them wanting to use rabbits for baiting or training. though maybe since my main breed will be harli's hopefully i wont have that problem since my rabbits wont have a wild rabbit coloring.

 

[Dood]

Not many sight hounds in Ontario so the guy was likely going to hunt with Beagles or other scent hounds and colour is not a factor.

Even if he was going to use sight hounds, dogs are a colour blind and harlequin would probably be the best colour to blend into the scrub and grass, even compared to a chestnut. The blacks, seals, and whites would probably stand out more while other colours would just be shades of grey and invisible to the dogs until it moved.

But back to the topic - I doubt he is a serious hunter at all as hounds can tell the difference between rabbits and cottontails and a good rabbit dog can pick up some very bad habits when trained on domestics - if they learn they can easily catch them then they wont call to the pack since they want the rabbit all to themselves, or they become lazy since they know domestics are slow. A good beagle doesn't need to be "trained" to tail game and i suspect this guy is just a lazy owner who wants a rabbit to exercise their hound rather than doing it himself.

Their noses would be put to much better use doing search and rescue work and there are quite a few of these clubs in the Guelph and Kitcherner-Waterloo-Cambridge area, and probably around London as well.

One of my house bunnies and my 12 year old beagle chilling on the couch. She has hunted cottontails and also happens to be on a raw diet that includes rabbit She also did search and rescue with an Oakville club in her youth and much preferred finding people who would give her liver treats than finding rabbits that just made her just run and run and run

 

[ladysown]

got another email from the fellow this morning after I turned down his offer of $2.50/lb live rabbit.

Says he's switched his dogs to a raw food diet and thinks rabbit would be a good addition.

I told him if he wants dog food rabbit I can stick 'em in the freezer and he can buy them that way for $2.50/lb/live weight.

 

[MaggieJ]

Good answer! No way would I sell this person a live rabbit.

 

[Dood]

Lol - I bet he does!

I only sell dead rabbits by the pound as I am not fond of live feeding by reptiles or hounds!

 

[MR_ND]

got another email from the fellow this morning after I turned down his offer of $2.50/lb live rabbit.

Says he's switched his dogs to a raw food diet and thinks rabbit would be a good addition.

I told him if he wants dog food rabbit I can stick 'em in the freezer and he can buy them that way for $2.50/lb/live weight.

Did he respond? Curious to see what he says if he responds.

 

[ladysown]

I have not heard back at this point. Didn't really expect to. I find when folks change their stories there is something not quite "up".

Going from I want rabbits to hunt, to I want to feed my dogs (then why are you asking for LIVE rabbits?).

I get people who email about rabbits, wanting them for their dogs. They NEVER start off with "I want to hunt", they always start off with their dog

 

[Jannette]

Just a heads up for ANYONE who breeds and sells rabbits live if you EVER get a request like this it is ILLEGAL as the rabbits bred for meat and pets are "domestic" rabbits, if you were found selling to someone who got caught doing it you can be charged as an accessory in animal cruelty (depending on your state laws) -this is about live not pre killed. It classes as a form of torture. Hunting licenses ONLY cover native species so for them to take a domestic rabbit and buy it for the purpose of sport is illegal.

In general there is ONLY 4-5 exclusions to that law depending on the state, which can be summed up as putting an animal out of its misery due to an injury to which it can not recover with proper care (a horse breaks a leg so the farmer shoots it) hunting as described under a hunting license (for native species, cottontail, jack rabbit etc), Killing livestock animals for their resources (meat and hide) and coming across an injured wild animal that is beyond rehabilitation or considered a threat, a farmer defending livestock from an animal wild or domestic.

Any other case is considered torture (including using rabbit raccoon fox any LIVING animal) when used to train a dog to hunt or to help with your "target practice".

If you knowingly sell to someone who follows those practices and the cops arrest them you can be charged and your own livestock removed.

Just a small PSA from someone who worked SPCA rehab investigations cases. LOL

 

[Susie570]

This is a really old thread, but thanks for adding your post. I'm glad to have that information. People are horrible.

I price my rabbits above 'live food' prices. That's enough to stop most of them. smh.

 

[Jannette]

yea i saw it was old figured i would post the legalities of it anyways so people knew in advance that it can rack up some serious problems for themselves if they knowingly sold to someone for that purpose. A LOT of people dont realize as breeders you can get big time backlash but your supplying an animal knowing the intended purpose which makes you "just a guilty" as the one comiting the act. liek people who fight dogs, the breeders may not be at the ring but they are supplying the ring and get in trouble anyways even with no direct contact with the ring because they KNOW what it is goes against the law. (in a case like the this the intent was given if police looked at the email then the breeder gets pegged as well)

i'd rather post on an old thread about the legal issues with it then i would keep my mouth shut and someone end up getting a run in witht he law, depending on how "peta friendly" the area some breeders would get a verbal warning and informed of the laws around it others get smacked with the same cruelty and negligence charges as the abusers do (several thousand in fines, animals seized and up to 3-5 years (depending on area) of jail time. NOT worth it in the long run to knowingly sell or supply hunters with live anything, and I HUNT and train hunting dogs (well use to out of it now until we buy a new house) there is NO need for a live animal for training, we had one of the top dogs in the state (coon hound) any and all of her training was done with a 3 year old pelt and a piece of rope (and at one point grandpa on an ATV ). LOL

The "i NEED a live animal" is a TOTAL BS story by people who dont actually know how to train their dogs properly, a good hunter doesnt need live prey to train a carcass or just a pelt is all that's required which is why it is illega l to train with living creatures, its the lazy mans way. <br /><br /> __________ Wed May 13, 2015 10:19 pm __________ <br /><br /> ^and thats JUST the animal cruelty laws, if a hunter looses said rabbit in an attempt to "hunt" it they also can get tagged with releasing an invasive species...