Broken Color Genetics

[PulpFaction]

Hi all, I have decided to use my lone Flemish Giant doe to try to make some broken pattern Flemish. I already have a couple of leads on 1/2 to 3/4 Flemish broken color rabbits, and I had a quick question:

Would it be of any benefit to get a charlie marked buck as opposed to a broken buck with good broken pattern? I recall from my brief stint in English Spots that breeding a charlie to a sport produced all fully marked offspring, but then again...the sport would have broken in it's background already whereas this Flemish does not.

Any ideas?

 

[ShadedNightRabbitry]

If you buy the charlie marked, ask to see the parents or photos of the parents. A charlie CAN just be a poorly marked broken, which will just screw you over in the end.

In the long run, it's easier to buy a nice pattern and fight with solids to keep producing them. I don't like charlies... I bought a false charlie, with no nose spot, and it's thrown me only one DECENTLY marked (no where near as nice as it should be) baby. All the rest have little to no color, and a lot are missing nose spots also.

Try to find a buck with about 35 to 40% color. Those are what generally look the nicest on the table.

 

[eco2pia]

ok, wait, you lost me a little. I thought a solid was genotype en-en, a broken was En-en, and a charlie was En-En. So with a solid doe and a broken buck you should get about 50-50 solids and brokens. With a solid doe and a charlie you should get all brokens. And the only way to get a charlie is to breed a broken to a broken, or a broken to a charlie...True? False?

Also, I absolutely don't get where the genetics come into play determining the patterns and percentages of color. :hmm:

 

[akane]

With all spotting patterns on all animals there are a whole bunch of modifier genes we can't even begin to map. These give us various patterns that will breed true if you select for them. If the animal has a mixed pedigree you could get any amount of white. A heavily marked animal may throw offspring with barely any white and an animal with the tiniest spot can throw a nearly all white. You just don't know what modifier genes are being carried. If you pick animals who have a history of coming from and/or throwing animals with a certain type of pattern odds are much better that you will get a good pattern as a result. If you just take a charlie without knowing thee background very well you may not actually produce good brokens. You could end up with everything from booted rabbits to nearly all white rabbits. No way of knowing if you don't know what the parents were like and preferably the grandparents but usually you don't get lucky enough to see anything but the parents.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

ok, wait, you lost me a little. I thought a solid was genotype en-en, a broken was En-en, and a charlie was En-En. So with a solid doe and a broken buck you should get about 50-50 solids and brokens. With a solid doe and a charlie you should get all brokens. And the only way to get a charlie is to breed a broken to a broken, or a broken to a charlie...True? False?

Also, I absolutely don't get where the genetics come into play determining the patterns and percentages of color. :hmm:

This is true. So a true charlie will have to come from two brokens (or charlie/broken). That is where you need to absolutly know the parents to make sure it is what it is and not a poorly marked broken!

PS... Is there a COD on broken Flemmish?

 

[eco2pia]

So a true charlie will have to come from two brokens (or charlie/broken). That is where you need to absolutly know the parents to make sure it is what it is and not a poorly marked broken!

Oooh! I didn't know that a poorly marked broken could look enough like a charlie to fool you! But if the parents were charlie/broken, there would still be a chance that it was a poorly marked broken, right? And then a test breeding or two to a solid would be required to be sure?

 

[akane]

They only way to guarantee a charlie is to breed charlie to charlie. Broken to broken gives you 25% charlie, 50% broken and 25%s solid. Charlie to broken would give you 50% charlie and 50% broken. So no you can't tell for certain. You would have to breed it to a solid rabbit and see if it produces any solid kits. It might also take multiple breedings to be certain if you don't get a big enough litter. You don't always get the exact breakdown every litter.

 

[PulpFaction]

Ok, so I think I'm going to look for a well-marked rabbit with markings on the light end of the accepted spectrum.

Thanks for the input, guys!

 

[Oakville Shooter]

OK, newbie question time. What is a "charlie?"

 

[Shara]

A charlie, to my understanding, is a rabbit with EnEn, and you get it by crossing two broken rabbits. The resulting "charlies" will be almost completly white and when bred to a solid, will produce 100% broken kits. It's just another color pattern, really.


Hope my summary turned out okay...

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Hotots are examples of "charlies" and how you can almost "set" the modifiers to produce an even result.

 

[Shara]

Oh, wow, I had no Idea of that, although it makes sence.