Breeding Siamese sables in lion head help please

[joybellfarm]

So from the way i understand it a dilute so breeding to black gives mostly all black right? So i need to bred to other shaded colors. Also what about the smuttiness on them how do i learn more on that?

 

[Dood]

If the black carries shaded, himilayan or red eyed white then when bred to a Siamese sable you should get 50% sables and 50% blacks. There could be other hidden recessive genes so you could get chocolate or chocolate sable, blue or blue sable, or even himilayan, REW or any number of other colours.

Do you have any information on the parents, siblings or offspring colours to help figure out what they might carry?

I'm not sure what smuttyness you are refering to on Siamese sable since they are pretty smutty looking to begin with

But

A Siamese sable with two shaded genes can be dark enough to be called a seal so it is prefered that they carry himilayan or REW instead.

 

[akane]

For best color you want to combine the sable gene and the himi gene. If you have 2 sable genes you get a seal which is almost black so you can't breed a truly pure sable. It has to be combined with another recessive gene.

Full color rabbits can carry c locus genes (chin, sable/seal, himi, and rew) and when bred together or to a rabbit displaying a c locus gene besides full color you will get various colors. The best thing to do is to get a seal and a himi that is not carrying rew and breed them because you will get 100% sables out of the combo. Every kit will get 1 himi gene and 1 sable gene with no other possible combination. Black based rabbits without dilute or chocolate is preferred. It makes cleaner, darker points than chocolate or blue sable. For the pet market though such colors can sell well because they are interesting.

 

[joybellfarm]

ok i was told the shaded group is harder to work with and its best not to put black into the mix as i would get all black and i really dont know about smutty. The simese sable i was looking at i was told a good rew will clean up her smuttiness. Im also looking at a blue pointed and Siamese smoked pearl doe, and a pointed white buck. I was told they all would go together good. Ive not got them yet will be picking them up in a few weeks. At the rabbit show. The blue pointed and simese are sisters and there ped is full of sables, simese sables and Rew. the smoked pearl has lots of the same in hers with the added simese smoked pearl in there. The only reason im unsure of the simese smoked pearl is she has a light toenail. A dq and im not sure how genetic it is. But ooo you should see her ped some of the top lionhead breeders in the us are on it. <br /><br /> __________ Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:02 am __________ <br /><br /> ok i was told the shaded group is harder to work with and its best not to put black into the mix as i would get all black and i really dont know about smutty. The simese sable i was looking at i was told a good rew will clean up her smuttiness. Im also looking at a blue pointed and Siamese smoked pearl doe, and a pointed white buck. I was told they all would go together good. Ive not got them yet will be picking them up in a few weeks. At the rabbit show. The blue pointed and simese are sisters and there ped is full of sables, simese sables and Rew. the smoked pearl has lots of the same in hers with the added simese smoked pearl in there. The only reason im unsure of the simese smoked pearl is she has a light toenail. A dq and im not sure how genetic it is. But ooo you should see her ped some of the top lionhead breeders in the us are on it.

 

[Dood]

best not to put black into the mix as i would get all black

Only if the black doesn't carry shaded, himilayan, or REW.

If you choose a black who had a parent that was one of these colours then you can be sure they are a carrier of one of the 3.

 

[Peach]

I would be careful on how you purchase. Unless that one breeder with top line lionheads In the background is familiar with good type, doesn't mean you can't get a cull.A big issue I seen with the Lionheads right now is that a lot of people offer the pedigree on all babies and reserve them before they know what they have. I'm noticing with my mini lops that I'm better off keeping them to 12 weeks rather than 8weeks for a better idea of their type.

I would stay away from those with light toe nails. If you breed two dilutes over and over, the result is lighter toenails usually. It good to keep a nice self black buck to breed in every so often for the nails.

A nice REW is also great for cleaning up smutt. The one sucky thing with the sable color (actually all shaded)? It's tempature controlled. So if you are in a humid place, your color on shaded rabbits will be splotchy/poor and no Rew or him I can ever fix that.

I have a lot of shaded color mini lops, but I try to breed on the fall/winter because they will atleast look somewhat decent when spring shows come around

 

[akane]

I didn't mean a plain black. I meant black based sables. If you want to work with blue based you can breed them all together but it will make things more complicated and a higher risk of an off color toenail or point causing a DQ. Light toenails is genetic but I have bred a sable with a light toenail and never got any offspring with a light toenail. However I didn't breed any blue or rew in to the line.

REW might restrict the points some, especially in temp extremes, but you can easily lose color clarity on the body. Here nearly all sable lines of all breeds are strictly himi with no rew to get the correct shade of body and keep the really dark points.

 

[joybellfarm]

Ok thanks for the info. So I found a nice pointed white?? It's what they called it. It's got a grey nose and ears looks like a himi. Can we use him? I've been warned to watch peds and breeders and such. And we asked around before deciding on the breeder of the does.

 

[akane]

Pointed white is another name for himi. That name is often used in shaded breeding.

 

[joybellfarm]

Good news found a nice black kit. He is only 4 weeks so could change alot but his sire and dam look nice and the Sire has 2 Bos win. Yes i know that does not mean everything. Anyway he has alot of tort and back ground with a little shaded/rew he should work if i get him right? Will not be ready for a month or so longer so he could change but so far they said he is very promising.

 

[Dood]

What colour are his parents and the colours they have produced and/or the colours of his litter mates?

If his parents are black or tort there is no guarantee he got the REW or shaded gene from his grandparents / great grandparents.

With torts in his background he may carry non extension and give you torts or sable points.

 

[amandainohio24]

We have Siamese Sables in Lionheads. We have bred Smoke Pearl, REW, Black Tort, and will be trying with a broken black in the future. So far we have had excellent babies with our matching matings. I am highly curious how we will do with the black broken with our does.

 

[joybellfarm]

he has mostly black and tort with a little simese and rew. So i think he will do.