Breeding for good Chinchilla color

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Oceanrose

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Ok. I want to work on Chinchilla Satin Angoras a bit. I know I need to keep chestnut, and coppers out of the line to avoid the brownish cast. But I am confusing about what colors I should breed.

I should add here, right now, I have a chin buck with clear color, a choc chin doe, and a squirrel doe. Colors on all 3 pedigrees are a mishmash.

I had always thought all solids went, but I am reading you're better off to breed REW to Chin? I have a REW buck who is most likely genetically chocolate, and 2 REW does, one is probably out as she is sired by a red. The other has Chocolate, REW and Black. Am I on the right track here?
 

Dood

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Chinchilla is an agouti with a dark shaded gene on the C-locus.

You can breed them to REW or Himilayan (Cali) since these two colours are also due to genes on the C-locus and they are recessive to the dark shaded gene hence you are guaranteed chinchilla kits.

Since you have chinchillas already I would not out cross unless necessary.

I would breed the buck with the squirrel (which is a blue chinchilla) You could also breed to the chocolate chin, I don't know if one gene would affect colour but if you kept a kit and bred her back to the buck only some would have the chocolate gene.
 

skysthelimit

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I agree.

The REW would be out in that case. Chin is fine with solids but you mess up the solids down the line. They will throw weird colors later on. I would stick with the choco chin and squirrel, as they are all chins to begin.
 

Oceanrose

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Hmm, the REW would improve type faster, my REW buck is MUCH nicer than my Chin... But I can be really selective in what I keep. So chin/chin, no solids. I really want to improve the chin color in this breed, the brownish cast is really common.
 

mwtrees

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I think you understand this, but for others reading.. REW is NOT a solid. It can be. It is a colored rabbit in a white paper bag. It can be black, blue, chocolate, agouti, orange tri-color or most any color. The only colors it cannot be are those that are also influenced by the c series alleles. That would include himi/cal and the shaded colors as smoke pearls and siamese and sable points.

The brownish cast is common because of the way the melanin (yellow color) works in genetics. A chin still carries some melanin. Carrying rew can sometimes wash out the color (sable chin, not genetically sable but in phenotype)
 

skysthelimit

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mwtrees":2fnwn4hd said:
I think you understand this, but for others reading.. REW is NOT a solid. It can be. It is a colored rabbit in a white paper bag. It can be black, blue, chocolate, agouti, orange tri-color or most any color. The only colors it cannot be are those that are also influenced by the c series alleles. That would include himi/cal and the shaded colors as smoke pearls and siamese and sable points.

The brownish cast is common because of the way the melanin (yellow color) works in genetics. A chin still carries some melanin. Carrying rew can sometimes wash out the color (sable chin, not genetically sable but in phenotype)


That's why I recommend no REW. I've been there, done that, culled the whole litter of chins. Mystery REw is still carrying a color gene you may not want in your chins.
 

Oceanrose

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mwtrees":q80lfpty said:
I think you understand this, but for others reading.. REW is NOT a solid. It can be. It is a colored rabbit in a white paper bag. It can be black, blue, chocolate, agouti, orange tri-color or most any color. The only colors it cannot be are those that are also influenced by the c series alleles. That would include himi/cal and the shaded colors as smoke pearls and siamese and sable points.

The brownish cast is common because of the way the melanin (yellow color) works in genetics. A chin still carries some melanin. Carrying rew can sometimes wash out the color (sable chin, not genetically sable but in phenotype)

Yup, I always tell people they are a rabbit in a Halloween costume, you don't know what is underneath. In my buck's case, it's especially questionable, as he has almost a completely REW pedigree. My guess is chocolate, but if he produces agouti with either of the black does I bred to him, then I was wrong :).

I am going to keep the chin-chin, or chin-squirrel as much as possible, while still working on type. I am actively looking for a chin with better shoulders, though the chocolate chin I have is very nice.
 

eco2pia

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Sorry for the thread resurrection, but I am struggling to match my chin phenotypes to genotypes here...I have a normal chin buck and doe, with no yellow tones, I have a chocolate chin mutt doe, who may also carry dilute (she has light "milk chocolate" eyes). For this question she is not involved...

I have had my first litter between the "normal" chin parents...some have grey blue eyes. Some have a "tan" cape (like a Tan rabbit) showing thru the chinchilla coloring? So in that area they are almost a light yellow and black agouti color, but the rest of them look like a normal chin color. Sorry the pics are not great but hopefully you can see what I mean? The second one shows the "tan" shaped cape pattern outlined in red. Does anyone know what will cause that yellow to show up in that pattern on a chin from 2 normal chin parents with dark eyes? it must be a bunch of recessives, but which ones?

I didn't think it could be at-chdchd? But could it? I thought to express the chin ticking you had to have A-chd-, and that would suppress the at? and how would the ee be expressed here? That would give really light chins, or frosties, I think....so I don't think it is involved.
PXL_20211005_150002672.jpgPXL_20211011_151855756.jpg
 

Zee-Man

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Not that it adds to the conversation much, but I have been looking for a chinchilla buck near Delaware for a while. I need to breed Dosidoe before she gets too old. Since I am not too concerned about coat color, what other breeds would be good for her, in terms of meat production?
 

eco2pia

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Not that it adds to the conversation much, but I have been looking for a chinchilla buck near Delaware for a while. I need to breed Dosidoe before she gets too old. Since I am not too concerned about coat color, what other breeds would be good for her, in terms of meat production?

You could cross her on a NZ....I think that would be my recovery choice. And I think I would go for a black one, and get back to chin in about 2 generations. The C gene is dominant to the cchd gene, so your first litter would likely be black. But if you next breed mother-son, or sibling to sibling, you should start getting chins again.

Try to find a buck that doesn't carry REW, that's the main thing.
 

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