Breeding Blues

[-HRanchito]

No litters in August, Had all 3 does miss in September, 2 misses and a singleton in October (didn't make it b/c milk didn't come in, I think), and had a litter of 9 this week -- all dead on the wire. I'm strongly suspecting my other doe is just fat--i'm about ready to call her a miss, and have the third due date next week, so i have my fingers crossed that she'll actually raise a litter...but gosh this breeding stuff is harder than I thought.

The failed litters were both from my younger first-timers..neither of them built nests or anything..I guess I should consider it progress because now I know both bucks and all 3 does are not sterile (after so many gosh darned misses)

Still though -- I'm wondering if i'm doing something very wrong to have a whole litter die like that. My husband checked on the doe at 4 P.M. (no kits) and I came home at 8 P.M. to find a kit armageddon--no signs of life even after warm-up. It was pretty cold out there...but is that enough time for 9 to be born and then freeze to death? It's really making me wonder if they died from cold or were all just stillborn.

My older doe might not be taking because she has weight problems...I think she's prego but then she's just fat. Should I just take break from trying to breed her or can I put her on a diet while she is expecting?

Some theories on what's going wrong:
Someone on yahoo answers said does will avoid nesting if their materials are too smelly, so you shouldn't use pine chips to line the nest box. I did put a layer of pine chips since it started getting cold and gave their regular hay for nesting. what do you guys think on this?

Leaving in the nest box too long -- I put the nest boxes in way early, no litterboxing, but maybe they aren't connecting the dots

Something wrong with the feed -- could it be minerals or protein? I noticed my mother of 9 licking her cage, so I think I need to get some mineral blocks? Right now I feed a 14% because no 18% is available (angoras) but use a 50/50 alfalfa/grass mix and BOSS/oats/flax mixed in to supplement. Still -- maybe it's not enough? I noticed a kit had it's tail bitten off which is why i'm wondering--maybe she was just clueless...

Do you guys think I should bring my third doe inside (had the singleton last time, no nest) for the week so cold is not a factor? Or would the change cold/warm/cold stress her too much?

Any other ideas?

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

well there is your problem 14 percent for working rabbits is way to low. YOu have to find a better food. tHERE IS to much corn in this food and not to mentioned tallow. Anything that is that low has all bad ingredients.

 

[ZRabbits]

Know you can't get 18%, which is what most breeders recommend, so maybe pushing up the suppliments, or maybe going 100% alfalfa for a bit? Maybe that could help your does get through kindling?

Karen

 

[skysthelimit]

I agree. 14% is way too low. I'm having problems on 16%, realized that right after I started really pushing my does, they quit on me. I also thought I had enough VitA, but MSD pointed that out to me, I realized when I was breeding in the early spring, I supplemented with oats, BOSS and forage, but when I stopped, that's when the problems started.

 

[-HRanchito]

My bad, I forgot the number..I do have the 16% and there is no corn in it -- but yeah, maybe more alfalfa would help. They do have an 18% blend but it would be a 5 hour round trip to get it.

 

[3mina]

The 16% would be better. I'd try that for a while and see if it helps, with the fat doe maybe try upping the hay and cutting back her pellets, I saw somewhere recently (really great footnoting I know) that taking the doe off everything but hay for a week helped with conception.

 

[skysthelimit]

My bad, I forgot the number..I do have the 16% and there is no corn in it -- but yeah, maybe more alfalfa would help. They do have an 18% blend but it would be a 5 hour round trip to get it.

Even that might be too low. What is the VitA amount on the bag?

 

[-HRanchito]

Here are the stats:
Protein 16%
Fat 3%
Fiber 21%
Calcium .75%-1.25%
Phosphorus .5%
Salt .5%-.75%
Vit A 3,500 IU/LB

:hmm: Can anyone decode?

 

[skysthelimit]

That's not too bad. I hear 4000 IU is the number to hit.

 

[ZRabbits]

Here are the stats:
Protein 16%
Fat 3%
Fiber 21%
Calcium .75%-1.25%
Phosphorus .5%
Salt .5%-.75%
Vit A 3,500 IU/LB

:hmm: Can anyone decode?

Found this about Vitamin A. Don't know how much a rabbit needs of Vitamin A, but the alfalfa could be your best bet. 100% alfalfa could give you more Vitamin A which could help your rabbits.

http://www.123exoticpet.com/content/vitamin-rabbits

Karen

 

[skysthelimit]

Did not know that about alfalfa. Alfalfa hay was a component of my feeding regimen. . I used to get an alfalfa mix, then this spring, I had to switch to grass hay. The alfalfa is really hard to find to here and grass was halve the price. I believe I read that rabbits need between 4000-8000 IU.

 

[-HRanchito]

When I was first shopping for rabbits I read that they shouldn't have alfalfa -- went to all the feed stores and couldn't find any bales without it. At least it should be easy to find a straight up bale around here. Wish I could teleport you some Skysthelimit.

 

[SarahMelisse]

I had similar breeding problems (no singletons, but lots of misses) and I recently switched to a 50% orchard grass 50% alfalfa and my does are really starting to respond positively. Maybe switch to a 50/50 at least and see how that goes since its so far to get the 16%.

Love your avatar by the way... Go Woolers!

 

[Oceanrose]

I also feed my angoras a 50/50 blend of orchard grass and alfalfa hay. I don't measure it out, just grab a handful of both. I free feed hay, and then limit the pellets.

I do think it takes awhile to just get going sometimes, so keep trying.

 

[skysthelimit]

Thinking of the wool breeds, you probably still need more protein than 16%, a lot of that energy is going to grow that coat. Same thing about the Rex coat, they grow slower and a lot of the energy is devoted to that coat, which is why after I could not find the alfalfa hay, I started getting a a lot of jrs that just could not reach senior weight.

I am just now putting it all together myself, I have not had a litter since August, at least out of the rabbits in my own barn, and the only thing that has changed is what I am feeding.

 

[curlysue]

I always use pine shavings in my nest boxes and i have done soo for many years.Newborns can die from exposure very quickly.Breeding rabbits is always more difficult than people think.

 

[skysthelimit]

I always use pine shavings in my nest boxes and i have done soo for many years.Newborns can die from exposure very quickly.Breeding rabbits is always more difficult than people think.

I'll say!

 

[3mina]

I always use pine shavings in my nest boxes and i have done soo for many years.Newborns can die from exposure very quickly.Breeding rabbits is always more difficult than people think.

But what about all that money we're supposed to be making doing this :roll: (sarcasm alert)

 

[-HRanchito]

Thanks guys, I got a mineral brick from the feed store and convinced them to order in some 18% for me. I'll give that a shot and see if things improve.

 

[ZRabbits]

Good to hear you have a feed store that will work with you. Hope the 18% works for you and you see things improve. Hope you update.

Karen