Breed 3 times - someones a dud? Am I doing this wrong?

[hypnotist]

For 3 months in a row we have put the 2 rabbits together, watched to be sure "it happened" and waited for a month to see that there are still no babies.

After each breeding the male rabbit dumps his food and water dishes or digs the food out of his dishes for a good week (what's up with this?)

Oh - there was one change - the male "pee's me" every time I go out there now. This is no accident, he has to get in position and spin and squirt just the right way to get me... usually in the face no less

They are both far old enough to breed. Both are being feed well and fresh water several times a day. not too hot, not too cold - spoiled. Is someone infertile?

Is there a particular time of month she is fertile? Going to search the site after posting this, can't wait to get advice and get it right this month. She doesn't look like she's any bigger, so I don't think we'll see babies come next week. That will be a month from last breeding.

I have about 25 pounds of food left - If I can't figure this out before the food runs out - I think I'm going to have to call it quits. I'm spending alot of time and money and having zero luck. Any advice at all? (In particular, next week, when there are no babies - when do I breed them next and exactly how should I go about it this time?)

(How I've been breeding them - put her in his side of the cage, watch, they do their thing, she starts biting his belly, I take her out and put her back on her side. Is that wrong?)

 

[rawfeeder]

I'm sort of having the same issue as you!

One of them could be sterile... have either had litters before?
Have you witnessed the male fall off all dramatically? And is her vent purple when you put them together? Does she raise her back end for him?
Are either too fat or too thin?
Is it too hot or too cold in your area?
What age are they? I've read if they are over 1 year and haven't been bred before, it can cause issues trying to get them bred.
Also what are you feeding them?

I'm told you need to wait until 36 days after the last breeding to rebreed. Just incase... some does have been known to go as long as 41+

You could also try letting them live together for a couple of days.


BOTH my does missed on their first breeding. They pulled hair, nested and got my hopes up ...but no bueno! I bred them back to the same buck and am waiting to see if we get babies at the end of the month. That paticular buck has also been culled, and I've since got a replacement buck to try if they didn't take again this month. Then its third strike for them and they are both culled from my program.

 

[starshotbandit]

OK dumb question, R u sure one is a boy and one is a girl? females will mount and also mark there territory like a male. also u dont have to wight 28-32 days to see if she is prego. 2 weeks and u can palpate(squeze her belly) and feel somthing like a grape, thats a babby. poop is small and hard, babbies would feel kinda like a grape.if you were to grab her now you might feel them move. dont be afraid to get a good feel, as long as you dont rip and pull, you wont hurt her. does dont have a"season" they r ready or not. they have to be stimulated to drop eggs 8 hrs after first breeding is when the eggs drop. so breed her twice just to b sure then try eather the next doa or the day after that. If she growel and tries to fight waite for the 2 week mark and palpate.
Did she try to make a nest the past few times? Have you had them long, or did you get an older pair from someone? could one b fixed? some people fix there house pets, then find out that its not so cool to have a rabbit.
I dont mean to pry or anything. I was having the same problem with my Cal and new zeland does. 3 months of trying 3 days in a row every two weeks with the NZ, having to force breed her. My Cal would chace the buck around and mount him after the firt time he dident want anything to do with her. I had to keep her away for a few days then hold her for him (he dident like me holding her eather). hope you have better luck

 

[Miss M]

After each breeding the male rabbit dumps his food and water dishes or digs the food out of his dishes for a good week (what's up with this?)

This is not common behavior, from what I've seen. I imagine it's excitement from breeding, but it would definitely be annoying and undesirable.

Oh - there was one change - the male "pee's me" every time I go out there now. This is no accident, he has to get in position and spin and squirt just the right way to get me... usually in the face no less

This is called being "sprayed". I haven't had the pleasure myself, thank goodness, but plenty of members have. Some cull bucks that spray, since there are plenty of bucks that don't.

Is someone infertile?

This is possible. It's also possible (rare, but it happens) that this particular buck/doe combination does not work. I know that some have had a particular buck/doe combination result in nothing but litter after litter of dead kits. But breed the buck to any other doe, and the doe to another buck, and no problems at all. It isn't common, like I said, but it happens.

It is also possible, like Rawfeeder pointed out, that one of them is fat or thin. Fat seems to be more of a problem. Run your fingers slowly down the rabbit's spine. If it feels spiky, the rabbit is thin. If you don't feel the spine, the rabbit is fat (except in the case of some Californians and maybe other meat breeds with very developed loins). If the spine feels like gently rolling bumps, it's just about right.

Being fat can cause unsuccessful breeding.

Is there a particular time of month she is fertile?

No, rabbits don't do into heat. They ovulate after breeding, actually. For this reason, some breeders will put the doe back with the buck again 8 - 12 hours later. This is usually not necessary, but some breeders have more success with this.

She doesn't look like she's any bigger, so I don't think we'll see babies come next week.

This is not reliable. Many does don't show at all, and the ones that do either show very little, or don't show until the last couple of days.

If I can't figure this out before the food runs out - I think I'm going to have to call it quits. I'm spending alot of time and money and having zero luck.

It sounds like you have it figured out fine, something's just going wrong. It is possible you might need different stock. If you can get different stock from a different breeder, all the better.

Any advice at all? (In particular, next week, when there are no babies - when do I breed them next and exactly how should I go about it this time?)

Rawfeeder's right, wait until day 36 to rebreed. I did have a doe go 41 days, but she had a stuck kit.

I've never checked the vent for readiness, though many breeders do. I've rarely had a doe refuse to breed, but I am dealing with a doe right now.

Yep, you put the doe in with the buck, watch for the buck to fall off of her. It's usually pretty dramatic. Once should be enough, but leave her in and let him fall off 3 times for better chances of a litter. If the doe does not lift her tail, the buck will not be able to breed her.

I hope you will give rabbits a go a while longer before throwing in the towel. Good luck to you and to Rawfeeder!!!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Sorry to hear you aren't having any luck.

As mentioned by Starshotbandit, first make sure you actually have a doe and a buck, and that they do indeed have all of the proper parts.

I have never seen a neutered buck, but I assume they remove the testes and don't just cut the spermatic cord as they do in a human vasectomy, so he should have a penis and testicles. If the doe is spayed you may be able to feel a scar from the incision somewhere in the midline of her belly.

Do you know how old the rabbits are? If the doe is older she may have too much internal fat to become pregnant.

I would encourage you not to give up- I am sure you have more invested in this venture than just the cost of the rabbits. Instead of scrapping the entire project, why not start with new stock or look for a breeder that will sell you a proven doe, bred to a buck? That way you will (hopefully) get a litter, and can then try to breed her to your own buck to see if he is fertile. If not, find another buck, and grow out one of your own from the litter.

If you have not seen this thread before, it may be helpful:

judging-a-doe-s-readiness-and-breeding-tips-t9869.html

 

[Frecs]

(How I've been breeding them - put her in his side of the cage, watch, they do their thing, she starts biting his belly, I take her out and put her back on her side. Is that wrong?)

Whoever said that raising and breeding rabbits was easy -- either lied or has never done it!

You need to let the buck "do it" several times, each time he should "fall over or off" her. That is the tell tale sign that he was successful. Some people repeat this process 8-24 hours later.

I had a buck who just wasn't able to "get-her-done" although he sure tried. I eventually culled him...hated to but he also had other issues.

 

[hypnotist]

Back from work and so thrilled to see the wonderful replies - thank you all!

Neither have had litters before, the male use to be kept with another male (previous owner). I know for sure he's a male because when it's hot outside he let's his 'male parts' hang out. I don't know what being culled means, but I do know that he wasn't neutered. I think the female is female because the breeder that she was bought from said she was... and I have seen her look dark redish purple down there before... and I haven't seen any male parts... and they did mock breed several times. She will stand on the other side of the partition, lay her head on or under his and get all dreamy eyed, then turn and hold her rump in the air for him (when he's NOT in the same side with her). When they are on the same side she runs from him and he has to catch up with her and try like heck to hang on.

They both look fantastic - I keep fresh water and fresh pellets, fresh timothy hay and a vitamin/mineral salt lick thing in there all the time and in the morning I give them greens (preferably dandelion, clover, grass and edible flowers in the summer, but now that it's winter they get dark green leafy veggies from the produce department). And in the evening when I change their water and pellets again I give them something different each night like sweet potato or apple or carrot (they won't eat cucumbers or parsley or a bazillion other things I've tried). So I think they are good and healthy. I also buy them the rabbit vitamin treat sticks made with fruits and veggies. They get those about once a week.
I have chickens, and have tried the corn - they won't eat that either.

I'd love to let them live together for a few days - but the girl really tries to tear him up if they are left together more than the 1 minute it takes for him to breed with her (He has not fallen over after wards, but you can see that he's a little weak in the knees lol). Once, they chewed throw the separation during the night and it looked like a murder scene the next morning. Stuff thrown everywhere, hair fluffs all over the place and blood spots everywhere. So I haven't let them be together other than when we are standing there for that few minutes. Should I put them together anyway?

If I were to 'get different stock' - would you suggest a different male, female or both?

I can't get hands on looking/touching. They let me pet them and rub their ears, but I have to have husband pick them up (and it is a major to-do!). I think they are scared when their feet come off the floor. They know when we want to pick them up and go to the back of the cage - we can't reach them back there. The cage is too big I think.

Once they breed the first time the girl will chase after the boy and bite his belly (draws blood and fur). Do I let them stay together anyway? Is this a normal rabbit thing to do? I assumed it was a fight and would separate them asap.

The boy is several years old. 2 I think, but possibly 3 at the oldest. The girl, we got her as a little ball of fur around April I think. So she's about 9 months, maybe 10 months old.

I'll try again with fingers crossed. I'm in Missouri pretty near St. Louis. Is there a breeder that you all would recommend in my area? Also, if I end up going to start fresh with new stock - what breed would you all suggest?

Thanks to all, so much for your help - I love reading the posts here and will be anxiously rechecking this post!

 

[Frecs]

"Culling" can mean anything from selling as a pet to someone else to ending the rabbit's life. For the buck I mentioned, I ended his life because besides not being able to perform with the ladies, he had reoccurring sores on his legs that caused me concern for him and the others.

If she is drawing blood on him, I would not leave her in with him. One of my does will whimper and carry on after her interlude with a buck but she nor him were actually hurt -- she just likes to be all dramatic.

In order to make suggestions on breed we'd need to know your purpose in breeding rabbits -- show, pets, or meat?

 

[hypnotist]

We want to use them as safe food for the family. (Trying to avoid heath issues and gain back health with 'clean' natural food). And to be prepared to be able to sustain ourselves (heaven forbid) this economy get any worse. We have fruit trees, garden, chickens for eggs, deer for meat and wanted rabbits for meat as well.<br /><br />__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:21 am __________<br /><br />(It is important to me that the animals we keep, although they will give their lives for us, that they be very well kept - spoiled I guess you'd say - so long as they are here). I may be going overboard with toys and different foods tying to give them "the good life"?

 

[Frecs]

We want to use them as safe food for the family. (Trying to avoid heath issues and gain back health with 'clean' natural food). And to be prepared to be able to sustain ourselves (heaven forbid) this economy get any worse. We have fruit trees, garden, chickens for eggs, deer for meat and wanted rabbits for meat as well.

__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:21 am __________

(It is important to me that the animals we keep, although they will give their lives for us, that they be very well kept - spoiled I guess you'd say - so long as they are here). I may be going overboard with toys and different foods tying to give them "the good life"?

We have a lot in common, then! What breed are your current rabbits?

I have Silver Fox rabbits for meat (and breed conservation), 1 French Angora for wool production, 7 hens for egg production, Muscovy ducks for (hopefully) meat production & pest (bug) control, and 3 spoiled rotten dogs. I also garden organically. All with an eye toward self-sufficiency and healthy food.

I love my Silver Foxes. They are a docile meat rabbit with a unique coat. They are on the "Threatened" list at the ALBC so breeding them helps to keep them from going extinct.

Do keep in mind that while "spoiling them" is fine, just don't let them get fat. Fat will keep them from being able to reproduce. That doesn't mean you can not giving them a variety of foods -- garden trimmings, weeds, and tree/bush trimmings are good for them as long as you build their tolerance slowly. Fruits should be a limited treat. (If you haven't checked out the Natural Feeding Forum you should -- there is tons of info!)

 

[Miss M]

but the girl really tries to tear him up if they are left together more than the 1 minute it takes for him to breed with her (He has not fallen over after wards, but you can see that he's a little weak in the knees lol). Once, they chewed throw the separation during the night and it looked like a murder scene the next morning. Stuff thrown everywhere, hair fluffs all over the place and blood spots everywhere. So I haven't let them be together other than when we are standing there for that few minutes. Should I put them together anyway?

While it's possible you have one of the few bucks that does not make a somewhat dramatic show of his conquests by falling off of the doe, it's more likely that he has never been successful with her. You can look up rabbit breeding videos on Youtube to see what they usually do.

I'm thinking you should replace your doe. She may be teasing him through the partition, but if she's attacking him and drawing blood after a very short time, and (probably) not allowing him to breed her, you need a new doe. I definitely wouldn't leave her in with him since she's attacking him like that. The running from him and making him chase her bit is normal, but not the drawing blood bit.

Be very careful with the treats -- the apples, carrots, and such. Treat them like candy with a child, only offering very small amounts. They are full of sugar and will fatten a rabbit fast.... or possibly cause diarrhea. Corn you don't even need to offer as a treat. I'll offer frozen corn cobs (after we've eaten the corn) in the summer, and freshly cut corn stalks, but corn is seriously full of sugar and is susceptible to a fungus that is highly toxic to rabbits. Some breeders avoid feeds that have corn in them altogether, but many rabbit feeds have it. I haven't had a problem with it so far, but a few people have. You just have to be careful with it.

Rabbits do have very sensitive digestive systems, unfortunately.

Carrot greens, on the other hand, are usually much more popular with rabbits than the carrots themselves, and are very good for them.

I don't know the breeders in your area, but you could look up your local ARBA chapter. You can also post a "looking for rabbits in St. Louis area" post in the "buy, sell, trade" section.

Many breeds are good meat breeds. New Zealand Whites and Californians are commercial meat breeds that have been highly developed for maximum meat:bone:feed ratios. Recent research by our members and someone on Backyardchickens revealed that Silver Foxes are every bit as good. But plenty of other breeds are used for meat -- Rex, Mini Rex, Florida White, Thrianta, Beveren, American, etc.

The Mini Rex and Florida White are smaller breeds, but are stocky and apparently have a good dress-out. One member recently remarked that her Florida Whites are little meat bricks that seem to thrive on little more than air.

While the giant breeds like Flemish Giants might seem to be good for meat, their bones are much larger, and they take longer to grow. They also eat a lot. French lops are a meat breed, and I was hoping to someday replace my half-lop buck with a French lop buck, to continue the random loppy ears in my meat rabbits (hey, may as well have fun!). But apparently, they eat a lot, too, so I'm not sure I want to go there.

We want to use them as safe food for the family. (Trying to avoid heath issues and gain back health with 'clean' natural food). And to be prepared to be able to sustain ourselves (heaven forbid) this economy get any worse. We have fruit trees, garden, chickens for eggs, deer for meat and wanted rabbits for meat as well.

__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:21 am __________

(It is important to me that the animals we keep, although they will give their lives for us, that they be very well kept - spoiled I guess you'd say - so long as they are here). I may be going overboard with toys and different foods tying to give them "the good life"?

This is exactly what we are doing. We've had the meat rabbits going for a few years now, and I need to move my fruit trees here (I may kill them all, we'll see), we're preparing to start a garden, we're raising chickens for eggs, and we want to start hunting -- or at least raise enough rabbits to trade for meat.

We also try to give our rabbits a good life. Someone said the other day that their rabbits have great lives, with one bad day. I thought that was well-put. We work to make sure that they don't even know they had a bad day.

 

[ladysown]

when she puts her bum in the air at him is the time to breed 'em.

one could be infertile or fat.

how old are they?

 

[hypnotist]

I'm not sure what breed they are. The girl is all white with a grey blush on her ears and tail. The boy is brown with white on his chest.
We started with 20 chicks and now have 10 hens and 1 rooster. 2 hens are the black spotted ones and the rest are all the pretty mohogany red collored ones. (Also a cat to keep mice out of the storage stuff and a spoiled dog and 3 spoiled sugar gliders).

I'll have to look at the feeding info - I've been giving them apple wedges a few times a week. Fortunatly they haven't gotten fat.

LOL, I'll have to wait till everyone is in bed then lock the office door and look up the rabbit breeding on youtube (blush).

 

[3mina]

A good way to check condition on your rabbits is to run your fingers down their back, spiky knobs is too thin, not feeling bumps is too fat, you want to feel rounded bumps.

 

[Miss M]

LOL, I'll have to wait till everyone is in bed then lock the office door and look up the rabbit breeding on youtube (blush).

Yeah, I had to do that, too... :lol: I couldn't understand what they were talking about, this "falling off" bit, so somebody told me to look it up on Youtube. I spent probably a half hour embarrassing myself that night. It took that long, because not all the videos I tried actually showed the dramatic finish. :roll: You do want to watch several, though, as it varies a little from buck to buck.

 

[hypnotist]

A good way to check condition on your rabbits is to run your fingers down their back, spiky knobs is too thin, not feeling bumps is too fat, you want to feel rounded bumps.

Great idea -I'm going to do that!