black genotype possibilities

[Zinnia]

My buck's pedigree says "black self chin". I have no genotype information on him. He has blue-gray eyes.

What are all of the possible genotypes for this phenotype (to help me determine colors of the litter he sired)?

His offspring (doe is lilac pearl)
http://s296.photobucket.com/user/sevens ... y%20litter

Thanks,
Zinnia

 

[Dood]

Black self chin = aa B_ cchd_ D_ E_
Lilac pearl = aa bb cchl_ dd E_

It looks like you've got
-black self chin = aa Bb cchd _ Dd E_
-chocolate self chin = aa bb cchd _ Dd E_
(maybe siamese sables) = aa Bb cchl_ Dd E_

and either
- himilayan = aa _b ch_ _d __
-sable points = aa _b cchl_ _d ee
-Sallanders. = aa _b cchd_ _d ee

 

[Zinnia]

Thanks.

My lilac pearl's genotype is written on her pedigree as aa bb cchdc dd ee. This is different than what you thought. If I'm not mistaken, the ee difference has something to do with what is considered a pearl in angoras(??), and the other difference is that mine is written as cchd, and not cchl. I think the breeder of that doe uses this (specific to angora colors) as reference: http://www.classactangoras.com/uploads/ ... ngoras.pdf

I'm guessing I can fill in the blank on the buck's genotype to read Bb, since there are brown kits(??) And a c for his dam's phenotype of REW(??)...

So, the buck could be aa Bb chdc D_E_
and the lilac pearl doe (taken from her pedigree) aa bb cchdc dd ee The ABC book would say this genotype is a sallander, instead of pearl because of the cchd (whereas a "pearl" or point would be cchl). Hmmm.

In the kits, I am seeing what looks like chocolate and black self chins and pearls or sallanders (depending on which guide I'm using). I'm hoping to figure it out so I can label these guys right, and refine my breeding to alleviate so much mystery!!

Zinnia

 

[Dood]

WOW angora colour names are more messed up than I thought :lol:

Alrighty, I thought pearls were full extension like "smoke pearl" in ND but it looks like pearls are non extension and can be dark OR light shaded :shock: which is crazy since IMHO the colour difference betwen the two is significant :shrug:

I'm guessing I can fill in the blank on the buck's genotype to read Bb, since there are brown kits(??) And a c for his dam's phenotype of REW(??)...

yes and actually he must carry non extension as well and would be = aa Bb cchdc D_ Ee (he "might" , carry dilute but I would have expected at least a blue or lilac in the litter, maybe next time)

lilac pearl doe (taken from her pedigree) aa bb cchdc dd ee The ABC book would say this genotype is a sallander, instead of pearl because of the cchd (whereas a "pearl" or point would be cchl). Hmmm.

According to the link - any genetic Sallanders are called pearls in this breed.

However:

This website - http://www.angorahouse.com/angora%20rab ... netics.htm - calls the sable points / light shaded angoras "frosted pearls" which makes more sense to me to differentiate the two colours

 

[Zinnia]

That's another great link, Dood. I have to say, the angora color genetics/names are hard for me to clarify when most information out there refers to non-angora.

yes and actually he must carry non extension as well and would be = aa Bb cchdc D_ Ee (he "might" , carry dilute but I would have expected at least a blue or lilac in the litter, maybe next time)

There is one "pearl" in the litter that appears lilac, but without a lot of experience, I'm not certain. She looks just like the dam (lilac pearl) in the ears and face, but the tail appears mostly light chocolate. We'll just have to see with her. And the other pearls appear (what I would call) light blackish...or dark gray on the face, ears and tail.
I got my copy of The Standard of Perfection in the mail today. I hope I can gain some more insight....

In other news...We had a bit of nestbox eye in this litter. All is well now, but I found it interesting that all three chocolate kits had it, plus the chocolate (or lilac) based pearl, while all the black, and black based pearls had none..... maybe just luck...

Zinnia

 

[skysthelimit]

I got my copy of The Standard of Perfection in the mail today. I hope I can gain some more insight....

Dood is so right, Angora colors are more messed up than the others, lol. Complicated by the fact that many have rainbow peds, and sometimes wool makes some colors hard to distinguish. You are kind of at the mercy of the peds.

Unfortunately, though the SOP gives visual descriptions of the correct color, no genotypes are attached to those descriptions, and sometimes the descriptions themselves are vague without the trained eye of an experienced breeder /

 

[Zinnia]

Yeah. I just looked through the angora section in the SOP and gained a tiny bit more insight. But, overall the SOP is just another book to sit on the shelf for me. Though I could see it being more helpful if I were to show them.

So. Here's another question about this litter...

The buck has a REW mom, so I gave him a recessive c.

The dam's pedigree has a recessive c.

So, I'm thinking there was decent chance of getting REW out of a litter of 9 (and there were none)... Was it just a fluke?

Zinnia

 

[skysthelimit]

Yeah. I just looked through the angora section in the SOP and gained a tiny bit more insight. But, overall the SOP is just another book to sit on the shelf for me. Though I could see it being more helpful if I were to show them.

So. Here's another question about this litter...

The buck has a REW mom, so I gave him a recessive c.

The dam's pedigree has a recessive c.

So, I'm thinking there was decent chance of getting REW out of a litter of 9 (and there were none)... Was it just a fluke?

Zinnia

The probability is for averages over time. Statistically, you should see REW at some point, but it doesn't always line up that way.
I bred black otter to black otter, and not a single black otter, a black otter carrying dilute to a black buck who dam was a dilute, and got not blues, a bro/sis pair who have produced chocolate and dilute before and got a whole litter of REWs.

 

[Zinnia]

Well that's helpful to know!

I know the breeders of these rabbits are great record keepers, and didn't doubt them... So, maybe a future breeding will bring me REW... I wouldn't mind having a few...

Thanks!