Birthing difficulties

[skysthelimit]

How long does it take for the rest of the kits to die after a doe passes a kit she's had difficulty with? If she strained for 15 minutes, is it possible any of the kits are still alive inside? How long doe she have to pass those kits before they die?

I am assuming that after the initial hold up, one might as well count the litter as lost.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I don't know...I'm so sorry though.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

It depends on when placental separation occurs, because then they are without oxygen.

There are so many variables that I wouldn't really hazard a guess... well, okay, I will- I think you have way more than 15 minutes. Think of litters of pups you've had... some pups come every 15 minutes, but then an hour or more later you have another live birth.

 

[skysthelimit]

It depends on when placental separation occurs, because then they are without oxygen.

There are so many variables that I wouldn't really hazard a guess... well, okay, I will- I think you have way more than 15 minutes. Think of litters of pups you've had... some pups come every 15 minutes, but then an hour or more later you have another live birth.

Pups can take and hour each. Rabbits come so much faster though. Rabbits usually take 10 minutes to deliver and entire litter, so I was thinking that they must be together and bam, kind of like opening a flooded room.

This doe was due Sunday, so I'm assuming the litter is lost for the most part, but I was just curious as to how that worked. And it's been way past an hour and the kits weren't moving anyway when she first started kindling.

 

[akane]

I've seen some in labor more than 24hrs and it's been repeated on here when small litters show up not to assume the litter is finished until it's been more than a day later. However I have never had live kits born after dead kits as far as I know. Once one gets too stuck it always messes everything up for mine.

 

[skysthelimit]

I've seen some in labor more than 24hrs and it's been repeated on here when small litters show up not to assume the litter is finished until it's been more than a day later. However I have never had live kits born after dead kits as far as I know. Once one gets too stuck it always messes everything up for mine.

Neither have I. I can feel four more kits distinctly inside, and they are no longer active like thy were yesterday, so I'm also assuming she has been in labor or at least 24 hrs already. Once one comes out dead, and the others don't come out immediately, all the other kits have been dead.

I was really hoping it would be different this time, but when the doe reached Weds without nesting or kindling, I pretty much knew this was going sideways.

If she doesn't pass the kits by Sunday, I'm going to cull her. The last holland went 38 days, didn't seems like she had any intention of passing the dead kit, wasn't even in the birth canal when I butchered her.

 

[caroline]

I recently had a doe who went to day 34. She did make a nest during the week before she was due and from day 32 was in and out of the nest box A LOT. She would spend hours in there. She is an experienced mom and had not had troubles before so I wondered if she had a really large kit but decided to wait and see what happened. Finally when I went out in the early am of day 34 I found a HUGE dead kit and she had also had 4 other kits that were normal sized and seemed fine. She is doing great a week later & is nursing 8 kits since I had a couple of does that had 11 and 12 kits and I fostered 4 to her. I'm giving all my does whole oats, BOSS and dried nettle to help their milk production and most of the kits in all the litters are looking well fed.

 

[skysthelimit]

I recently had a doe who went to day 34. She did make a nest during the week before she was due and from day 32 was in and out of the nest box A LOT. She would spend hours in there. She is an experienced mom and had not had troubles before so I wondered if she had a really large kit but decided to wait and see what happened. Finally when I went out in the early am of day 34 I found a HUGE dead kit and she had also had 4 other kits that were normal sized and seemed fine. She is doing great a week later & is nursing 8 kits since I had a couple of does that had 11 and 12 kits and I fostered 4 to her. I'm giving all my does whole oats, BOSS and dried nettle to help their milk production and most of the kits in all the litters are looking well fed.

I don't suppose you know what the time differential was between delivery of the dead one and the others? She had the dead one around 10pm, it's now been 8 hours and no more kits. This is looking like the other times when dead kits are passed over several days. This doe had not made a nest till yesterday morning and has not even looked at it since. She's laying around like nothing is happening. I hate when they go through the trouble of making a nest then have one dead kit outside of it.<br /><br />__________ Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:51 am __________<br /><br />She's doing a lot of straining now, and making little noises, but there is nothing in the birth canal, about four kits right in the abdomen, nothing moving when she pushes.

 

[ladysown]

generally speaking if they are straining to pass a kit for an hour, the rest are dead...NOT always, but generally. Anything after an hour it's very unlikely to get anything from them.

Does that have their kits easily can sometimes have a late arrival that is perfectly fine. I'm never sure why that happens ... my most surprising litter started one day early and over the course of three days gave me 11 perfectly normal kits. None dead. it was just very odd.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

How long does it take for the rest of the kits to die after a doe passes a kit she's had difficulty with? If she strained for 15 minutes, is it possible any of the kits are still alive inside? How long doe she have to pass those kits before they die?

I am assuming that after the initial hold up, one might as well count the litter as lost.

If you breed her 2 days apart or even 8 hours apart. You could see these problems. I have been seeing allot of problem with does giving birth because of the breeding pattern they are using.

If this is a holland lop. THey they are most likely all dead.But is it is a standard rex. You have a very good chance of them still being ok.

 

[skysthelimit]

How long does it take for the rest of the kits to die after a doe passes a kit she's had difficulty with? If she strained for 15 minutes, is it possible any of the kits are still alive inside? How long doe she have to pass those kits before they die?

I am assuming that after the initial hold up, one might as well count the litter as lost.

If you breed her 2 days apart or even 8 hours apart. You could see these problems. I have been seeing allot of problem with does giving birth because of the breeding pattern they are using.

If this is a holland lop. THey they are most likely all dead.But is it is a standard rex. You have a very good chance of them still being ok.

I never breed more than one session anymore. I haven't seen any reason too, I've had does only get caught once, not one session, just once, and have 6-8 in a litter. I have not yet have one allow themselves to be bred after the initial session, so I stopped doing that a long time ago. I've also noticed that every doe has a set range of kits they are going to have, no matter how many times they are bred. I can say Scream has 8, Fava has 9-10, Big Hair has 4-7, Patriot has 5-7, and the range has not changed so far. Increasing breeding sessions does not change the amount of kits I get.

This is a first time mini rex. With the exception of Scream, who I have noticed the decline in her kindling skills, I don't even worry about the Rexes. When the Rexes go 34 days that's typical. When the hollands go 34 days, I know I'm not going to get a live litter. I had not expected this one to be as complicated as the hollands, but she's 9 mos old and the heat, for her first litter that combo can't be good.

She's not having contractions any more. I think I'm going back to bed, then I'll get some breakfast.

 

[Disney]

Last year i had a doe with a stuck kit, his body was hanging outside but his head was stuck behind the pelvis.. the doe was breathing heavily and straining a lot, making noises so i got really worried. It was the first time i had a difficult birth so i went to the vet 2 hours later and they gave her a shot to relax the muscles, the kit slipped out with a stretched neck a few minutes later. She had still 2 kits inside her so they told me to go home and wait for them to come out. She couldn't pass them either and kept straining so i went back to the vet and they did a c-section on her.
The remaining 2 kits were already dead. It was around 12am when she started pushing the first kit and 4pm when the dead kits were taken out.

I had this doe for a few months and this was the first litter i bred with her, i didn't know if she was ever bred before.
But i knew she wasn't going to bred anymore after this, so a year had passed and this march, she got out of the cage when i was feeding her. The buck was roaming around free then, so i turned immediately and got her, the buck was sitting next to her.
She wasn't even there for a minute so i wasn't worried about it, nothing happened i thought.
A month later.. she surprised me with one kit. I never thought i could have babies from her so i was very delighted.
She raised that kit fine.
And so now.. she is raising another litter of 4 and they are fine as well!
She is a very good mother and keeps them fat!

The pictures of that day

The first kit, head stuck inside

An hour later..

At the vet, the first kit with stretched head

C-section

A few days later

This is her first alive kit


Sorry for the long post, i thought i should share it.. may not be helpful.
I hope your doe passes them, let us know how it went!

 

[caroline]

Does that have their kits easily can sometimes have a late arrival that is perfectly fine. I'm never sure why that happens ... my most surprising litter started one day early and over the course of three days gave me 11 perfectly normal kits.

I have had 2 different does do something similar. They had what I thought was a normal sized litter and were out of the nest box eating. I checked the nest box thoroughly and and counted and noted the kits in my barn journal. Then the next day [and in one case the day after that] there were additional live kits in the nest.

 

[skysthelimit]

Well I left her in the barn and came in for breakfast. She is eating dandelions now, but she's not having any contractions unless I palpate her. The kits are still jammed up close to the ribs, and even with contractions, nothing seems to move towards the birth canal, they haven't even moved towards the groin area. Sunday I will cull her if she does not pass the kits, a $20 rabbit is not worth a $100 vet visit, especially when I have 4 more like her in the barn.

 

[fuzzy9]

So sorry sky, I had hoped things would work out for her.

 

[skysthelimit]

I can feel a kit at the canal,at the pelvic bone, it's good and stuck. The opening is so narrow I could hardly get a finger in. I doubt she will get this one through naturally. Now I'm just waiting till Sunday.

I'm more worried about what to tell the breeder when I cull her. She's really nice young lady and is very proud of her breeding program. I don't want to upset her.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

That is to bad. Just like us. Some of us have smaller pelvic area and have to have c=sections

 

[skysthelimit]

Total so far, five kits. Pulled out all but one, she passed on her own some time after 10pm last night. Poor thing. Looks like she'll make the Sunday deadline, so I'll give her some time to heal, probably some antibiotics and I'll try her again.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Too bad, Sky. We need to find you some Hollands with wide rear ends! I hope she does better next time.

 

[skysthelimit]

Too bad, Sky. We need to find you some Hollands with wide rear ends! I hope she does better next time.

I like big butts and I cannot lie...

__________ Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:56 pm __________

Well I went out to check on her, she's lying on her side, still and barely breathing. She's not gonna make it. I'm wondering if I should tell the breeder. I've just had her several weeks, thought it would be nice to have a litter by the time she was out of quarantine...

I guess I'd want to know if a doe I sold had issues kindling or died during/after kindling from complications.